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suspected emm failure after 7 years E-TEC I-3
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18 posts rbunch4468 18 posts
rbunch4468
I have recently caused myself a problem by inadvertantly overfilling my oil reservoir (hopefully, that all it is).  My low oil indicator came on, so I quickly pulled in and filled from my fresh gallon of XD100.  Guessing by the amount left, I probably added about 3 1/2 quarts.

I have read after-the-fact that the fill level is 2 quarts.  Why, oh why, is there no molded bar in the reservoir mold for 'Full'?

Why am I asking?  Well, shortly thereafter, I started noticing clean oil spots under the lower unit where I parked with the trailered boat.  Smells like XD100, looks like XD100, feels like XD100.  I took the lower covers off this morning, and some more excess oil drained out.  I used Dove soap and a garden hose to clean the insides of the covers, and the area below the reservoir that was contaminated with oil.   

I will watch after my next trip to see if the problem returns.   Anything else that I should pay particular attention to?

Thanks
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jeffkrol 14 posts
jeffkrol
Well I'll try to make this brief.
Winterized motor last year
stored
took it to lake  first time this year.
blew the 10a fuse
pulled j7 (or whatever) and no fuse blew.
diag lights went on ect.

At the shop as I write sooo.. will get more info as it is relayed to me..

Now the point of this thread (and specifically to add a, hopefully, "list" )
is to sort of compile KNOWN reasons to blow out a board.
We already have reversed polarity
voltage spikes from loose bat terminals
submersion

and...this is what I would, hopefully, like to know..
As an example.. say you replace a plug on water or any number of likely or unlikely repair.

Or things like shorted coil ect..
There are, some "mystery" failure I've read about w/ no "good" explanation.
high power board parts can fail.. like the voltage regulators and anything like MOSFETS ect.
Bad caps .. Have no idea whats all on these boards but some do rebuild them so.. not rocket science.

Oh to vent, currently, wife's very disappointed w/ this "possible" failure and honesty, shouldn't happen
or frankly, shouldn't cost so much.
Components are dirt cheap for the most part. Boards could probably be made for like $100 in bulk from Mexico/China ect.....
Sorry for the rant, just used to throwing new coils on old motors and away they go.. [wink]

One more ODD thing is one of our local "listed" Evinrude dealer stated they have basically abandoned the Ficht system and warned me I might not be able to buy a new board (seems he was wrong, at least according to my current "guy".

I even tried one "re-builder" who said the 586970 E can't be rebuilt.
Soo for us northerners season has begun and sooner or later an EMM issue/thread will pop up soooooooooo I thought I'd start it
E90dpliis engine..
Oh and price for it was quoted at $1090 9part only, who makes these things up btw)...why not just an even $1000
and a day after my birthday (sorry a pity point I know)
Well have at it..please.   

Oh one more o/t topic because I'm sort of considering it.. Any real advantage to a "pontoon" 90 in comparison to a plain 90 for a 20' 2 tube pontoon? 
hmm maybe a poll.. later.
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PhilH12 5,718 posts
PhilH12
Some "handy" guys have done their own repairs after identifying the blown capacitor, resistor, etc. - along with some pretty nifty soldering skills.

Meanwhile, no - EMM's aren't cheap and why many who have learned on here take special care on the voltage spikes, terminal connections, etc, etc.

Your EMM appears to have been superceded a couple of time now, and then you've got the whole "reprogramming" thing to do if it's replaced.  Welcome to B.O.A.T - stands for Break Out Another Thousand.

Some good reviews and vids out on the net and on here for the Pontoon series.  The new softer mounts come to mind, but there's more than just that.  They do seem to be well liked.

Phil
Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
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jeffkrol 14 posts
jeffkrol
Thanks... I'm contemplating a trade..though no numbers yet.
SAD thing is we were considering updating the pontoon itself.. That "ship" has now sailed..Can't do both ATM..

Quote:
on here take special care on the voltage spikes, terminal connections, etc, etc.

I as well which just adds to the frustration..[frown]
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PhilH12 5,718 posts
PhilH12
There's some real smart folks on here about diagnosing the EMM, but it could be just a wiring problem to blow the fuse?  Not necessarily the EMM, I don't think.

Older dry wires set up for the winter, hopefully no mice etc, getting in the cowling for a dry place to winter over.  Move it again in the Spring and now got a problem.

It depends a lot on the skill of your tech to determine the true cause and fix it right.  It has been known that some guys who aren't as "skilled" as others just like to throw expensive parts until the problem is solved.  Not saying that's your case, but be aware of that.

Good Luck with it!

Phil
Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
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rickmcd53 4,034 posts
rickmcd53
The pontoon series 90 is a great engine. It has a better torque curve to provide more mid range power.

A dealer reference to a FICHT engine would apply to direct injected engines before 2004 when the Etecs were introduced.
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jeffkrol 14 posts
jeffkrol
RE: Mice..
Yea had them chew the wires inside of the trailer tubes..
And one season an issue on the pontoon itself but in the changing stall.. That was a mess.

Bounce sheets work pretty well to keep them out of enclosed spaces like the engine.

Aparently just real "bounce" sheets though or so I've been told..

Wiring inside engine is clean AFAICT and def no nests..


Thought the j2 "test" was pretty conclusive..
Still leaves the "why" though..
Thanks to all but not getting the:

"How to blow an EMM" list.. 😉
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steelhead 5,065 posts
steelhead

Major cause of EMM failure is EMM overheats from debris blocked engine block>EMM>VST>telltail stream out the back.  Can be in any of the devices or the rubber tubes.  EMM overheat will cause an error code and if heat is high enough, EMM shuts down motor.

Often caused by weeds picked up by LU water pickups, beaching on sandy or coral beaches, muddy dirty waters.

Another is poorly designed boat battery power system that is overloaded.  All outboards need to be ran on their own dedicated starter battery, NO other power draws on motor battery.  E-TEC is designed with 2 separate charging outputs to easily charge 2 separate boat battery systems, one>motor, one>all the toys.

E-TEC EMMs and injectors are a patented product produced by Synerject in a plant in Delavan, Wisconsin by US workers.  All engineering and components are done there.They make products for other companies in the outboard industry and in water and snow power sports.   Synerject was recently bought out by Continental AG, an international conglomerate corp involved in powertrain and other transportation systems worldwide. 

The circuit boards in E-TEC EMMs are potted in a hardened strong epoxy resin for rigidity and moisture sealing.  Makes the boards non-serviceable, common in marine electronics apps.

I have a new LG $4000 tv that blew up twice the first winter apparently due to lightning strikes miles away and powerline surges even being protected by 2 power surge protectors before the tv.  Repaired on warranty first year ONLY.  Should I expect LG to replace/repair the tv when power company strikes 7 years later.

There are 38 "computer boxes" in my BMW that all communicate with each other.  The direct injectors are $2000 each installed with labor.  The "computer" in my Dodge Cummins truck has "blown up" twice out of warranty, $3000 each time with labor, I love the pulling power of the Cummins motor and how reliable it is.  Should I dump the truck, NYET.


 

 
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jeffkrol 14 posts
jeffkrol
not going to argue any "economics" here and being in WI I do support our local economy by even buying one..
I could ask for proof these boards are "made in the USA" but I'll do that leg work myself..
As to Synerject history:
2006
Quote:

Synerject L.L.C., a supplier of engine systems and components with a plant in Delavan, said Friday that it has established a subsidiary in China to serve a growing Asian customer base.

Synerject, Newport News, Va., is a joint venture of Germany's Siemens VDO Automotive Corp. and Orbital Engine Corp., Perth, Australia. Synerject supplies engine management systems, modules and components for the marine, recreational, motorcycle and industrial markets.

The Synerject plant will be located within Siemens VDO's automotive electronics production plant in Changchun, China. It's expected to begin operations in the spring. Synerject also plans to open a sales and application engineering support center in Chongqing in early 2007.

Synerject's Delavan plant is the former electronics components factory of BRP US Inc., the manufacturer of Johnson and Evinrude outboard motors that has a plant in Sturtevant. Synerject purchased the 40,000-square-foot factory earlier this year for an undisclosed price.


funny thing..
Quote:
Le site SYNERJECT est actuellement indisponible.

Trying to "find" synerject on line results..

anyways still looking for "other things" that can blow the board..

Quote:
All outboards need to be ran on their own dedicated starter battery, NO other power draws on motor battery.

Never mentioned really...Besides trolling motor batteries doesn't seem very common around here..
IF that is the case no e-tec rep has ever mentioned it. Pontoons and bass boats ..[wink]
Sometime my discussions sound argumentative but it's really not.. I work in retail and understand it quite well.. the good and bad of it..
I doubt anything but fuel injectors are made their presently... A GUESS of course.
Quote:
Chapter 3 was with Synerject, a plant of <100 making EMM's and fuel injectors in Delavan, just a short country drive (1 hour) southwest from my house. First thing I got was a credit card with authority to spend up to $2k without written approval. They actually unhindered their employees to do their job. Fantastic experience. Lots of hands on, with an on site tool room, (do it yourself). The fuel injector product line would be deemed by most companies as not manufacturable, due to component variation and tight tolerances (I learned the size of a micron). Through continuous improvement over a course of years, production is now consistent and predictable. But the winds of change are blowing for Synerject as the parent company, Continental Automotive, is taking over and forcing their systems and methods upon the plant. Continental=Delphi in it's layers of control and bureaucracy and I wish the best future possible for the little factory in Delavan that also taught me so much. 



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steelhead 5,065 posts
steelhead
Just have to look at one of the boards, MADE IN THE USA.
When I worked for Motorola, got a special invite for plant tour by their Engineering Group.
You will find their products in the snowmobile, motorcycle and water sports industry.
Several of the chips and the microprocessor inside are Motorola, most with nomenclature ground off to make DIYer service interesting unless one has an inside contact.

Conglomerate buyouts do affect everything in a small local corporation.

How times change everything.  Moto Cellular was sold off to the Communist Chinese government, who knows what the present firmware captures and data routes to the The Ministry of State Security Peoples Republic of China.

Intel has gone Chinese and Indian.

IBM sold off their laptop and what was left of their desktop div. to the Communist Chinese, guess the workers moved with the selloff?  ThinkPad is now SpyPad
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Crosbyman 1,972 posts
Crosbyman
…  The circuit boards in E-TEC EMMs are potted in a hardened strong epoxy resin for rigidity and moisture sealing.  Makes the boards non-serviceable, common in marine electronics apps.



I am sure they could use a different approach to make these things serviceable….potting is just to easy and fast  and  would  alter the resale market .. and  they would have to  stock & sell  individual parts ( diodes scr coils capacitors) for those of us who can use a soldering iron.….


 I  would love to  see stats on  individual component failure  in  EMM's  … is it  mostly  50$ CPU's  that blow & why…. or is it  just  $2 SCR and diodes ?

 I guess we will never know.  

btw… Dad's  3 year old  Samsung 32inch TV   melted the back panel thanks to  a large.. blown  power capacitor. NO help from Samsung but a shop  ordered  & resoldered one in  for $25  :-)   
Feedback helps everyone tell us what you found !
I do my best ...you do the rest :-) 
 2005 75 HP E/W Merc 4hp oldy :-)
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seahorse Moderator 8,972 posts
seahorse

 Some years back the factory stated that more than half the EMMs that were returned for warranty  tested OK and were often installed on endurance test motors to see if there were any intermittent problems and they worked fine.

 

There are very few individual components that could be replaced in an E-TEC EMM. They consist mostly of large proprietary IC chips.
...possessing more tools than talent !


My sarcasm and my sincerity sound surprisingly similar !
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jeffkrol 14 posts
jeffkrol
Ok, still haven't heard back from  the shop as to any problems..
I have done some more minor legwork on this and it does seem that this issue (blown EMM's) certainly (currently?) isn't an issue.

In regards to those that actually fail..yes it's probably fairly cheap parts such as voltage regulators, diodes,capacitors, or chokes.
The reasoning behind this guess is that "most" seem to be able to access the logic circuits after failure. Recovering the data alone leads me to believe the "computer" part is probably fairly robust.
Besides it runs off like 5V w/ very little current demand.

There are probably secondary chips that interface between the brain and grunt work and those aren't probably cheap.
Keep in mind they are not cheap not based on silicon but programming/engineering..
These could fail.

Secondly the  big but cheap parts are the more workhorse components.
Converting 12V to 55V and keeping it stable would probably generate a lot of internal heat but on the cheapest of components for example.
controlling 2 charging circuits ect.
SCR's ect at large sizes are "exactly" cheap but not anywhere near in the realm of CPU's ect.

KEEP in mind the above is mostly speculation on my part and subject to errors.. [wink]

And yes.. it is what it is.. like I can't just replace the front wheel bearing on my truck ($50 part) but need a "assembly".. ($300 part) and of course the added labor in putting an "assembly" on vs pulling and pressing a bearing.

As to the figure 45% (believe is fairly correct) weren't actually bad..well that poses all sorts of OTHER questions..
Having cheap parts fail on more expensive "things" is quite common..everywhere. most power supplies (stand alone, integrated, ect) fail due to worn out, bad, dried capacitors not any "chips" ect. These are sub $1 components..
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keeper 170 posts
keeper
"Boards could probably be made for like $100 in bulk from Mexico/China ect....."

I have experience in sourcing electrical components from China.  Trust me.  You don't want to go there.  
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jeffkrol 14 posts
jeffkrol
OK, just a brief follow up.. Was told board has a short.

China makes some good stuff some bad..
Think they could handle a simple I/O board.. [wink]

Quote:
Inside 'iPhone City,' the massive Chinese factory town where half of the world's iPhones are produced


https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-factory-foxconn-china-photos-tour-2018-5#spanning-more-than-22-miles-and-dozens-of-buildings-the-business-park-looks-like-any-other-trees-are-everywhere-police-and-security-guards-stand-on-every-street-corner-and-workers-on-break-camp-out-in-the-shade-a-decade-ago-this-area-had-only-dirt-and-fields-of-corn-and-wheat-in-2010-the-government-bought-out-local-farmers-and-the-factory-was-up-and-running-within-the-year-3

It's not pretty ..
Don't get me wrong, it just is what it is..

Quote:
"The employees always say the people outside want a job," one employee told CNET. "And the people inside want to quit."

Seems pretty universal..
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olypopper Moderator 8,693 posts
olypopper
[biggrin]

Isn't globalization fantastic!
"Never believe what you read on the internet"-Abraham Lincoln
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