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ulf_l

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Hello

I know, there are a few threads with that subject. But now that there are no more new outboards sold, could there be a possibility that there will by an official way to get the engine tuned by software? For example getting my 135 HO to 150 HO ?

Ulf
boscoe

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Reply with quote  #2 
There is always a possibility. Just takes time, skill, effort and money.

Many non OEM companies are known to do this. 

I don't see BRP being involved. No way, no how.

Long range plans of BRP should be to phase out support for the brand over time.

Have you investigated the possibility of replacing your 135 EMM with a 150 EMM as a means to increase the power output?
ulf_l

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boscoe
[...]Have you investigated the possibility of replacing your 135 EMM with a 150 EMM as a means to increase the power output?



No I havn't. This seems to be the most expensive way to do that and I must find a dealer that loads the injector-data into the EMM. So if BRP would open an official way to let the dealer make the money by updating the EMM could be a win win for customers and dealers.
Huey

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I would not hold your breath due to EPA regs and not just BRP but no OEM will allow end-users to do this or even their dealers.  Ever since carby days there has been families of engines and with the old tech engine it was doable at DYI level, but with modern outboards not so much.

Just for interest sake, what do you believe would be a fair price IF a dealer could do it-that is what would you pay? Then the dealer would need to make the choice if what you were willing to pay was worthwhile to have the possibility of the EPA chasing them or let's say you have an accident and the engine map / HP does not match the compliance plate on the stern bracket-the insurance company would be coming after the person that did this.

There are plenty of people on here that have done the injector co-efficient loading themselves without needing a dealer, so your call, get yourself a 150HP EMM, change the injectors and see what happens and while at it why stop at 150HP, might as well get a 175HP EMM.
ulf_l

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Reply with quote  #5 
Here in Germany nobody takes care on any EPA rules of outboards, they are busy enough to kill the German diesel engines in the cars ;-). But anyway, when there would be an official way I would think the tuned engine will have the same legal EPA values as the legal sold engines. I would think a fair price would be the half price that a new EMM would cost. So the Customer has to  pay only the half and the dealer could make a bussines that otherwise would not happen. When upgrading from 135 HO to 150, that will be no deal, at least it should be the 150 HO. If the 175 has hot differences in "hardware" so this would be also an option :-). I would pay 500 to 1000 Euro for an official "upgrade" with no los of warranty. 
mead

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulf_l
Here in Germany nobody takes care on any EPA rules of outboards, they are busy enough to kill the German diesel engines in the cars ;-). But anyway, when there would be an official way I would think the tuned engine will have the same legal EPA values as the legal sold engines. I would think a fair price would be the half price that a new EMM would cost. So the Customer has to  pay only the half and the dealer could make a bussines that otherwise would not happen. When upgrading from 135 HO to 150, that will be no deal, at least it should be the 150 HO. If the 175 has hot differences in "hardware" so this would be also an option :-). I would pay 500 to 1000 Euro for an official "upgrade" with no los of warranty. 
Respectfully you are not willing to pay enough. New engines cost more that that.

If some thing like you suggest could happen, you need to plan for Double and more your high end $ for Parts and labor. Warranty is questionable, and for sure if the max Hp rating for the boat is exceeded, somebody is going to get in trouble, not by emissions but by legal issues.

seahorse

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulf_l
Here in Germany nobody takes care on any EPA rules of outboards


Have you ever been stopped on Lake Constance (Bodensee) for a pollution check?  That is the most highly regulated body of water anywhere.


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ulf_l

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mead

Respectfully you are not willing to pay enough. New engines cost more that that.



I would agree, if new G1-engines with more than 135hp would be still available ;-).
ulf_l

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Quote:
Originally Posted by seahorse


Have you ever been stopped on Lake Constance (Bodensee) for a pollution check?  That is the most highly regulated body of water anywhere[...]]


No, and this will never happen, because outboards without a catalytic converter over 100 hp are forbidden anyway on the Bodensee [wink].
But you are right, thats the only water with EPA restrictions. But you get the ETECs with the lower Power with an "Bodensee-permission". This is also only a peace of software, if the ETEC doesn't comply with the Bodensee-regulations already.
seahorse

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Reply with quote  #10 
Unlike other manufactures, the E-TEC, I understand, is the only outboard that meets all the worldwide emission regulations without needing special models for various areas. E-TECs are compliant with EPA, CARB, EU, and Bodensee emission requirements without any changes.
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ulf_l

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Reply with quote  #11 
Yes, may bee. But the modelnumber has an extra prefix B for the Bodensee models http://www.operatorsguides.brp.com/OperatorsGuidesAttachments/OwnersManuals_EJ/attach/Accessories%5C5008825_EN.pdf
Huey

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Reply with quote  #12 
The "hardware" is all the same between the 135-175HP G1's, so if you do not care about emissions, insurance or legalities find a 175HP EMM and do the injector number swap and see what sort of improvements you get. The day will never come where any brand allows end users or dealers to bump up the HP via software and still give any form of warranty.
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #13 

U.S. EPA just about destroyed the diesel pickup tuning and retailing companies here in the states.  Went after them with a vengeance, sign Federal Court Consent Decree or go to Fed. prison for owners.  Even went after some of the modified diesel pickup owners.

Started with investigations of advertising online and diesel pickup magazines.  Search warrants, went in and took all company's sales, marketing and financial records.

If you bought one of the devices, the Feds have your address and name of your first born.

Most of the State EPA environmental agencies joined court actions.  Feds and States took in hundreds of millions in seized assets.

Every smoke roller on the highways got turned in to State Police.

EPA also just about killed off VW here in the states for deliberate emissions violations, worst was their diesels.  Hundreds of thousands of diesel VWs set in the deserts sand blasting away.

US Coast Guard is like vultures preying on lake and river recreation and commercial boaters looking for fuel and oil leaks.  They get a cut of the fines.  Marinas and ports turn in violators, they get a cut of the fines

And this is under the most friendly to heavy polluters administration ever.

Catalytic converters are coming soon for gasoline powered internal combustion outboards.  Here already and mandatory for I/Os and inboards.

Most sanctioned racing activities are EPA exempt.

boscoe

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Reply with quote  #14 
If there is no prohibition with respect to folks buying a different ECU/EMM to gain additional power, I am not understanding there being any objection to a software change. End result being the same of course.
ulf_l

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey
The "hardware" is all the same between the 135-175HP G1's

Thank you for that hint :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey
so if you do not care about emissions, insurance or legalities find a 175HP EMM and do the injector number swap and see what sort of improvements you get.

This seems to be a misunderstanding. I asked for an official way, then I would think the tunes engine should have the same legal emission values as a legal sold engine. I wrote this already ;-). The legalities of the power on my boat is no problem. I asked the manufacturer and he told me 175 hp are no problem and I could get new papers, then the insurance is also no problem. I think there would be no other engine with this great power to weight ratio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey
The day will never come where any brand allows end users or dealers to bump up the HP via software and still give any form of warranty.

Then it is so. But it would be an opportunity for the dealers to make some money with a very little effort if BRP would give an official permission for that. This could be a sign for the dealers that BRP would keep a little responsibility and estimation for there loyalty to the brand.

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