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GhostOutboard

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Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #1 
The fact that Evinrude is ceasing production of E-Tecs has many thinking that 4 strokes have won and that it is over for 2 strokes.  

That may be the case, at this moment in time,  in the boating world. But it would be a mistake to assume that will be true in the future. 

Why? Because the 2 stroke can be better than the 4 stroke. 

Why? Because when the difference in overall performance gets big enough then people won't care how many strokes the motor has, just what the motor can do - all things considered.

2 stroke development is not standing still.  There is still time to change the game.

What is the basis for saying this? Consider the following:

Formula 1, the pinnacle of motorsports, is seriously considering bringing in 2 stroke motors after 2025.   There must be a good reason.

Cummins is now developing a next gen 1000 hp 2 stroke opposed piston motor for the military.

Fairbanks Morse has developed a new 5000 hp 2 stroke opposed piston motor for power generation.

Achates Power has worked with the two companies above to address previous 2 stroke limitations while preserving advantages.

2 stroke opposed piston motors have been around for many, many years.  Now new versions of that have been and are being developed.

How about 30% greater fuel efficiency?
No spark plugs? check
Gas or diesel? check
Lower emissions? check
Compact? check (Ghost like)
No valve train? check
Less moving parts? check
Reliability built in? check
Can be sized to most any application? check
Can be used in a hybrid application? check
Can be used in cars or trucks? check
Can be used in boats? why not
low to high horsepower? check
turbo charged? check
supercharged? check
direct injection? check


Google Cummins Opposed Piston 2 stroke to see one of the shapes.
Google Achates Power or search them on YouTube.

Will you see one on a boat in the near future?  Don't know.
Could you see one on a boat in the near future?  Yes. Yes you could.

Let's say you have a large boat that gets 1 or 2 mpg and costs a fortune to fill, and you can get motors that are much more efficient, and compact. Either reducing your fuel bill or extending your range or both.  Might you be interested?  Yes you might.

The 2 stroke is not dead.  4 stroke engine manufacturers will need to pay attention to what is coming so they are not left without an answer.

ajtec

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #2 
I am curious how the validation motor in the F150 and the two tractor trailers is doing. I have been hoping to see more information released around Achates OPGCI because it would have been a game changer in perception.
GhostOutboard

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Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #3 
ajtec.  Here is a link with further info:

https://achatespower.com/tech-papers/

Making inroads in light vehicle applications is certainly a huge challenge.  

Now, if someone tells a prospective customer that a 2 stroke motor is 1% more efficient than a 4 stroke, with a 1% lower cost of ownership, and a 5 to 10% higher purchase price, then that likely won't drive many sales.

But if you tell a customer that the 2 stroke motor is 30% more efficient, more compact, less weight, more torque, reliable, with a significantly lower cost of ownership. At some point, when the differences get large enough, the customer will listen.

Otherwise we would all still be walking around with Nokia and Blackberry smartphones, or Kodak cameras, or straight six F150s with stick shifts.  BTW, nothing against F150s with straight sixes.

more info here:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/at-least-one-automaker-plans-to-produce-an-opposed-piston-engine/


tmd11111

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Posts: 85
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostOutboard
ajtec.  Here is a link with further info:

https://achatespower.com/tech-papers/

Making inroads in light vehicle applications is certainly a huge challenge.  

Now, if someone tells a prospective customer that a 2 stroke motor is 1% more efficient than a 4 stroke, with a 1% lower cost of ownership, and a 5 to 10% higher purchase price, then that likely won't drive many sales.

But if you tell a customer that the 2 stroke motor is 30% more efficient, more compact, less weight, more torque, reliable, with a significantly lower cost of ownership. At some point, when the differences get large enough, the customer will listen.

Otherwise we would all still be walking around with Nokia and Blackberry smartphones, or Kodak cameras, or straight six F150s with stick shifts.  BTW, nothing against F150s with straight sixes.

more info here:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/at-least-one-automaker-plans-to-produce-an-opposed-piston-engine/




Three and a half year old reference.  Dead is Dead
Noelm007

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Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #5 
And the tooth fairy might come.....I can't see many centre consoles needing a 5,000HP opposed piston 2 stroke any time soon, lots of ships have 2 stroke designed engines, but it means nothing to compare to outboards.
boscoe

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Posts: 563
Reply with quote  #6 
Gas turbines rule.
ajtec

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #7 
Nice to see Noelm and Alloyboy make the rounds from time to time.
Canuck1

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Posts: 1
Reply with quote  #8 
Two strokes are far from being dead. BRP are using them in many of their products.
roamer7

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Posts: 89
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck1
Two strokes are far from being dead. BRP are using them in many of their products.


BRP only uses 2 strokes in Snowmobiles and Go-Carts now. Both are very weight sensitive vehicles. I'd love to see a Can-Am Renegade XMR with a 600R E-TEC in an uber-lightweight aluminum/CF chassis. At 125 HP and under 450 lbs the thing would be an un-stoppable mud monster.

__________________
2004 Princecraft Sportfisher Pontoon
2020 DF90A Suzuki replacing 2004 90 HP Evinrude E-Tec E90DPLSRC
Other BRP toys include:
2021 Ski-Doo Renegade Backcountry 600R E-TEC
2015 Ski-Doo Renegade Backcounty 800R E-TEC
2013 Can-Am Outlander Max 800R XT G2 w/ DPS
wejohns

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Posts: 341
Reply with quote  #10 
After this BS move I will never own another BRP product.  As long as other companies make 4 wheelers, jet skis and sideXsides I see know need to buy anything which will put one dime in BRPs pocket.
heyjj

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Posts: 77
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wejohns
After this BS move I will never own another BRP product.  As long as other companies make 4 wheelers, jet skis and sideXsides I see no need to buy anything which will put one dime in BRPs pocket.

There's a lot of that going around. [thumb]
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