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Shenanigans

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Posts: 42
Reply with quote  #1 
2005 225HODHLSDF  with 1036 hrs
Still goes like a rocket but I have a cold start stumble that is irregular and will sometimes make the motor stall . I notice when it has this stumble the system volts on analogue gauge on dash drops sharply.
The stumble is less apparent when warm - an irregular hiccup noticeable at up to 3000 rpm or so.
I've just put in new plugs , indexed correctly, gapped correctly and no change.
Exhaust back pressure fitting changed 50 hrs ago, VSP filter checked clean.
Injector and spark drop dynamic testing done and all produce same amount of labouring on the engine for each cylinder.
No faults on software.
Every now and then the motor runs really smoothly with no sign of the miss/stumble.
Pulled the plugs after idle testing and have 3 of the 6 that are sooty with 3 that look tan brown. After skiing and high speed running the plugs looked all ok and light tan.
Seems to be slightly heavier on fuel than I'd expect also.
I haven't done a timing check or tps sync.
I am thinking maybe injectors ? I have run a bottle of the Johnson injector cleaner thru it 50 hrs ago, but no change so thought it was the plugs...Would a super strong dose of injector possibly help?

steelhead

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Reply with quote  #2 
First off, your E225DHLSDF is a 2006 model.  What part number of plug did you put in?

Please post up a recent Engine History report with any codes.

Salt water motor?  Any corrosion under the flywheel or on the stator?  All magnets still in place?
Check the PRV for any water leaks.
Has the PRV been replaced with the improved upgrade?

Do Oly's Basics  13 year old ,motor with 1000 hrs and cyl to cyl variations.

1. Compression and leakdown tests all holes
2. You did the basic tests via sofware on the spark and injectors.
3. Lift pump pressure test on the hose. Main fuel pump pressure test on the water at high speed.
Boat fuel line vacuum and air bubble leak tests on the water high speed.

If every above checks good.
Do a complete decarbon.   Soak the combustion chambers and injectors by pulling plugs, each cyl to TDC and add 4>6 oz of E. Fuel system cleaner or Carbon Guard in each hole.  Let set 15 > 30 minutes and rotate next to TDC, repeat.  After all are done. let set overnight.  Next morning blow out the holes with compressor.  Crank motor over with plugs still out until no more liquid comes out.
Start motor, warm up to operating temperature,  spray a full can of E. Engine Tuner in through throttle body until motor shuts off.
Let set for several hours.
Triple dose of E. Fuel system cleaner or Carbon Guard in small portable tank.
Take it out on the water and run it like you stole it.

If the motor does not smooth out, time to pull the injectors.
I would try pulling the injectors apart and cleaning per Joe's video on the site.  I soak the nozzle tips in Carbon Guard overnight and spray E. fuel system cleaner into the injector internals and cleaning the screen filters.
Last resort, send the injectors off to one of the professional commercial E-TEC injector cleaning businesses that have been posted on the site.

Support Joe at BB's with your E. parts purchases needed.  He keeps the lights on and the Russian hackers sprayed with nerve agent so they don't destroy the site.
Check that, you're in NSW.  Huey is our Auzzie supporter and bill payer.
Shenanigans

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Posts: 42
Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks for reply and tips Steelhead.
I thought it was 2006 by the online parts list and model number as well, but has a date on the model tag stamped 07/2005??
I installed the later recommended plugs CQ10WEP.
No codes on engine report . Latest attached report.
No current errors. The historical codes for overheat were me playing with jack plate heights and cooling dropping off but were only alarming for a second or so. All the codes around 980 hours were me initially installing the motor when I transferred it from previous owners boat.
Yes it is a salt water motor. I haven't looked under the stator / flywheel for corrosion and the magnets - I'll see if I can get a mirror to look.
No water leaks anywhere. Not sure if the PRV was upgraded as no history from previous owner from his mechanic/service person - although he can't have been very ETEC minded as it had the old type plugs in it (very bad gaps) and computer was set on XD100 oil and had Mobil TCW3 type in it and always had. Also the exhaust backpressure fitting was entirely burnt off - obviously was for a while...so I suspect the PRV has not been changed to the newer type.
I'll see if I can borrow a compression tester and check that, and follow thru with fuel pressure tests.
I'll try the full on decarb as suggested... it has had a fair bit of idling time by previous owner - used for barefoot skiing on a semi-club basis and he said he always started the motor in the morning and never turned it off until he pulled the boat out.
I removed an injector that had a sooty plug and the screens were all 100 percent clear . I wasn't game to pull the tip though as it seemed tight on there....would an on-motor injector leakdown test show up the tips being a bit carboned or not shutting fully?
Hopefully the dose-up does the trick - and enjoy driving it like I stole it! (There's nothing like that 70mph+ wind in the face to give a smile!)

 
Attached Files
pdf Etec 225HO Dec 16 2019.pdf (618.42 KB, 15 views)

steelhead

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Reply with quote  #4 

There was a posting some time back of a professional injector service business set up with the high tech equipment to clean and test E-TEC injectors per E. specs located either in Oz or Nz. 
Might search the forum or the guys down there may post up the info.

All original made in 2005 injectors.

There is a firmware upgrade for your motor EMM per the model #.
98558HO, new motor overheat algorithm

Post up some go fast vids of the stolen motor[biggrin]

I still love hot fast cars, bugs in the teeth at 70mph++ too much HP outboards and hot fast women.

The 2006 225s had the old style expensive injectors.
Want to protect your investment.
2 water separator/dirt filters 1 on motor and large canister spin on on the boat.
Use E. 2+4 fuel system protector ethanol stabilizer every tank or Stabil Marine
Huey can get the 2+4 for you.
Fuel quality and cleanliness is sacred in these, $4000US for injectors+labor.  Plugged injector =s burned melted cylinder.
Consider running Oly's Brew. 1oz of your TC-W3 rated lube per 2 galsUS gas in the tank

This is NOT Oly's Brew but it works for most boaters on a hot day.

Its-only-water.png 


Shenanigans

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Posts: 42
Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks Steelhead , I'll have a search around. The EMM map you mention (98558HO) was the one that was in it when i got it ,and the software program said there was an update to it - it used to come up in blue ...so I just did that map upgrade to the one in it now ...software gave me an option of two maps so I picked the one with HO in the designation (94039HO) even though it seemed a lower numerical number. Now the report doesn't come up in blue saying there's an update. Should I go back to the other map I wonder ?
Thanks for the filter advice - I did read that the early injectors were different somewhere.I have the spin on type filter in the boat also . I don't use fuel with ethanol in it - I use our 91 RON unleaded and every now and then 96RON . I did think of putting a bit of oil in the tank also now that the motor has a few hours under its belt. 
I read these early lightning gear cases could be a bit failure prone also but so far so good. I did grind some cone shaped chamfers on the water intake to make a more hydrodynamic flow which instantly helped water pressure, and that helped with cooling as the hull of my boat is somewhat strange with a large ventilation tube aerating the rear step of the hull.( the std tube type speedo wouldn't work because of this ventilation effect)  
I'll do a drive to Hueys tomorrow and get some of the injector cleaner fuel treatment .
I must do a video actually of it running fast although I think it looks fast sitting still.... 20191214_061432.jpg 

GEB

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Posts: 2,184
Reply with quote  #6 
Hi Shenanigans,
                               Re E-TEC fuel injector cleaning service in Australia. The only one I know of is White Water Marine on the Gold Coast but I don’t know if they do injector flow tests ect before and after cleaning as Fuel Injector Man in the USA does. You’ll have to contact them for full disclosure.
Also some links that may be helpful
 
DIY fuel injector cleaning video. 
 
DIY tool for removing injector tips (photo). Refer to Nordmann’s posts in this discussion 
 
Fuel Injector Man USA (for comparison to service offered by White Water Marine)
 
Fuel Injector Cleaning Australia. (Also refer to links included in this discussion.)
 
Cheers
GEB
 

 

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Stacer 389 Territory Striker
Model No.E25DTSLAFC
Serial No. 5503333
Mid North Coast
New South Wales
Australia 
The learner will not shear the rams.

Shenanigans

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Posts: 42
Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks GEB , I'd forgotten about his home made to in the video. I'll make one up and try that once I've done the simple "can tune" things first.
I've run a can of engine tuner thru..... It sure blackens up the water! I'll let it sit to tomorrow and then run the heck out of it to see if it's improved.
Shenanigans

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Posts: 42
Reply with quote  #8 
Whilst checking everything else out I pulled off the exhaust back pressure hose from the EMM and blew thru it ... It seemed to flow very easily . I knew it only had small holes in it because I replaced when I got the motor....( The old one had burnt off completely!) and I thought it would have more resistance than that.
I pulled the side covers off to get to it and found the cable tie was broken and the was only on loosely. The original was held with cable tie so I had replaced the same. I removed the fitting and cleaned it up with the carbon cleaner and this time used a SS clamp to secure it. Who knows if it is some of my problem.
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #9 
EBP system fitting>hose>EMM failure is the classic case for symptom difficult long crank starts especially cold, rough idle. 
The hose really takes a beating on high speed rough water runs and hot climate high heat large displacement motors loaded heavily

The firmware 98558HO is the latest EMM firmware and probably the last for that age motor.
redhead

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Posts: 151
Reply with quote  #10 
Check and recheck that while the motor is acting up, the 55V is steady. Variations in the 55V will affect the motor very negatively with exactly the same symptoms you are describing. You will need digital gauges or the software attached to the motor to check this. If you do not have either of these you need to connect a voltmeter to the system.
Shenanigans

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Posts: 42
Reply with quote  #11 
Thanks Redhead. I'll double check that voltage on the software...if its playing up then could be the flywheel magnets mentioned by Steelhead.
I'm waiting on the engine tuner soak to see whats thats done in conjunction with the exhaust backpressure hose fix.
Shenanigans

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Posts: 42
Reply with quote  #12 
Well not sure which worked, or maybe both decarbon and the backpressure hose fix..... But started and idled well straight away. Still need to take it for a hard run and check that 55v.
The miss/stumble wasn't apparent. There's life in the old girl yet. I'll see how it goes after a good thrashing. Thanks for all the advice.
Shenanigans

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Posts: 42
Reply with quote  #13 
Took it for a good thrashing and pleased to report it's idling well with no stumbles. I have a chine walking issue to sort out now that creeps in over 60 knots.
Did a quick one handed video for Steelhead 🙂 on YouTube...
Search Haines Signature 1900S
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #14 

Can't tell much for ride quality on a moderate wind chop day.
Light boats high horsepower and speed on a windy day is supposed to make the pucker string cinch up.
Film from the side by another boat on a flat calm day like photo above.

13 year old original injectors, I'd pull the injectors next off season and send to the injector service shop in Oz mentioned by GEB above.  Cleaning and test to specs. 

I'd add an E-TEC digital water pressure sensor and NMEA gauge/MFD that reads WP broadcast from the E-TEC EMM on the network.  Number of overheats in the past.  Saves water pumps, injectors from overheat damage, saves expensive EMMs and saves motors.  ROI ++.  Too easy to fry a motor with a jackplate.

Run an on the water test for air bubbles in cooling system caused by aerated water off transom and specialized hull design.  Section of clear hose in EMM>VST cooling circuit or PRV hose.

Call Huey, he's the guy in Oz for All E-TEC such as the E-TEC WP electronic sensor.  He puts in countless hours for free on this forum helping E-TEC owners for free.  He's one of the shop owners keeping this site open and free to all.

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