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jimh

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Reply with quote  #1 

In this post I will compare two sets of data collected from the same engine regarding the engine speed, water pressure in the cooling water system, and engine temperature. All the engine data is from digital readings via NMEA-2000. The engine has the optional water pressure sensor installed.

In a previous post I reported some observations I made in 2011 about my model year 2010 E-TEC V6 3.3-liter 225-HP engine. I noted:

Observed Cooling System Water Pressure
E-TEC 225

RPM  PSI RANGE  ENGINE TEMP RECOMMENDED PSI
750  3.8 - 4.4  180        3 - 5
1300 9.2 - 9.5  191        8 - 9
1300 9.0        195        8 - 9
1350 9.7        163        8 - 9
1400 9.6 - 9.8  189        8 - 9
3700 14.0       127        12 - 14
4200 13.7-15.4  129        13 - 15

The data show the engine cooling system was operating in the normal range of pressure, with a trend toward the high end of the recommended engine temperature operating range.

Below is the recommended water pressure range for the 2010 E-TEC 225-HP:

Water Pressure Chart E-TEC 225 2010

RPM   PSI
Idle  3-5
1000  7-9
1500  8-10
2000  9-11
2500 10-12
3000 11-13
3500 12-14
4000 13-15
4500 14-16
5000 15-17
5500 16-18

To follow-up on those observations, I recently recorded some new data in September 2017. Again, from the same engine, but now with 455-hours of run time, and a water pump impeller installed in 2014 (when the engine had about 330-hours run time). The impeller was installed with the improved procedure. (See below for link). The impeller has thus been running for about 120-hours and for more than three years. The seawater temperature for these observations was 65-degrees-F, about the same as for the 2011 observations.

Observed Cooling System Water Pressure September 2017
E-TEC 225
RPM   PSI     F°   RECOMMENDED PSI
500   3.8     -    3 to 5 (engine just started and still warming up)
1000  8.8    172   7 to 9
1250  9.9    168   8 to 10
1400 10.2    144   8 to 10
800   6.6    177   5 to 7

Based on the comparison of the water pressure and engine temperature ranges, I infer that the water pump impeller is still operating in the normal range of performance, even though the recommended three-year-interval for replacement has been exceeded.

Based on the comparison of the two data sets, the performance of the engine cooling system is improved by the new water pump impeller installation procedure. An improvement of 50-degrees in lower engine temperature is seen around 1400-RPM, even though the more recent data is taken from the fourth year of use of the water pump, which exceeds the recommended maintenance interval.

On this basis, it appears the new procedure for installation has made a significant improvement in engine cooling in the E-TEC 3.3-liter V6 legacy engine. It also appears that the water pump impeller can continue to deliver good pressure and flow beyond the usual three-year interval recommended for replacement.

For more information, see my original article on this topic (now locked) at

http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/etec-225-cooling-system-water-pressure-5364455

and at

http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/engine-temperatures-following-water-pump-service-new-installation-procedures-6955900

The recommended installation procedure for the water pump impeller is available in PDF form at

http://www.etecownersgroup.com/file?id=1942897



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Fishinfinatic

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Reply with quote  #2 
 I personally wouldn't run my water pump impellor that long, Your just asking for problems . Cheap insurance to change every year. At worst you wind up with a burnt up engine....at best you wind up broken down when it fails.
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Scottar

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Reply with quote  #3 
My last engine had 3 waterpumps in 20 years. My current motor the tech inspected the impeller at 3 years and put it back in. If you run your engine regularly, stay away from sand banks and never run them dry, changing them yearly is simply over servicing IMO.
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jimh

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Reply with quote  #4 
FISH comments:

Quote:
I personally wouldn't run my water pump impellor [sic] that long...


How long is "that long"? The best way to describe periods of time is by use of units of time.

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jimh

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Reply with quote  #5 
SCOTTAR notes:

Quote:
My current motor the tech inspected the impeller at 3 years and put it back in.


When the water pump was serviced on my E-TEC V6 225 engine in 2014 at 330-hours run time, the impeller was in perfect condition. The impeller was replaced, but the old impeller was was retained as an emergency spare part. 

Quote:
If you run your engine regularly, stay away from sand banks and never run them dry, changing [the impeller] yearly is simply over servicing...


I agree. The suggestion to change the water pump impeller on an annual basis makes no sense to me, and particularly when the water pressure readings conform completely to specification. The manufacturer only recommends three-year time intervals. As my actual data shows, even three-year intervals is a conservative approach to water pump maintenance for boats which don't run in sand-filled water.



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LourPitcher

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Reply with quote  #6 
The recommended preventative maintenance intervals on products are something service providers are familiar with seeing them published in most any good service manual. 

In developing this service information at the manufacturer, it is usually 1st made by the assigned product support engineer selecting a point on a curve from a generated plot showing the product's forecast failure rate.  . This plot predicts the  'Mean Time Between Failures' or MTBFs..... such as for a new product outboard's impeller. 

My past experience (including the authoring and oversight of the setting of recommended product maintenance intervals for a major worldwide product manufacturer) finds that these actual maintenance intervals that become published in the service manuals/literature by the time the developing product ships most always has service intervals that are very different from the product engineer's actual determinations and recommendation.

The logical interval determined by the product engineer by the time it is published is often very skewed to be shorter or longer by other (non-technical) manufacturing interests:  

Shorter recommended maintenance periods might be advocated such as by the manufacturer's parts department in wanting to increase their parts sales/profits.  The shorter the recommended maintenance period, the more factory parts that can be sold. Representatives of a manufacturer's  service dealer network may also advocate for short service intervals as providing routine service is an important profit source for them.  (Sony for example for years made more profits from product parts/accessories/service sales than actual product sales as did many of their authorized sales/service dealers.) 

Other manufacturing interests such as might be found in product marketing/sales departments can want to lengthen the published recommended service intervals. One reason to make the service interval longer may be to boost the product's marketability by selling the notion that the product offers the buyer a very low cost maintenance product.  Seems we saw BRP emphasize such a selling point in the early marketing years of the E-TEC stressing the supposedly attainable 'no required maintenance for 3 years' advantage.  .Another reason to extend service intervals is to reduce actual costs on any manufacturer provided service contracts...the less times the product is serviced, the lower is the internal cost to provide factory contract based servicing to the owner.    
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With close observations by the owner of his/her specific product's 'actual performance' and keeping good data records as Jim is doing above, servicing costs after warranty expiration may be reduced.  A manufacturer's recommended maintenance schedule then can if desired be considered simply as a recommendation since the numbers were always simply a prediction.   The actual published service intervals in a service manual were always 'user generic'  and were likely never 100% based on any hard performance data to start with. 

However, with the absence of related actual user data such as Jim has gathered, seems the manufacturer's service interval recommendations are the next best guideline available. 

 



Fishinfinatic

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Reply with quote  #7 
     I guess its all a matter of perspective. I have a lot invested in this boat and motor so that its ready to go fishing whenever I have the chance .Ill spend an hour of my time and the 60.00 for a water pump every year to make sure that's one less issue for me to have. I would rather spend my time catching my limit of speckled trout then trying to prove the shop manual is wrong. Plus it would be no fun when 25 miles from the marina the 1-2 foot forecast seas in Breton Sound turn to 5-7's because a storm turned up, and my motor is overheating because I wanted to re -invent the wheel when it comes to common sense maintenance that is just plain cheap insurance for my equipment and safety.    
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jimh

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Reply with quote  #8 
FISH declares his intentions:

Quote:
I would rather spend my time [angling] [than] trying to prove the shop manual is wrong.


It seems to me that trying to prove the shop manual is wrong is EXACTLY what you are doing by changing the impeller every year.

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