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windseafire

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #1 
2011 ETEC 90 with just 165 hrs.

Boat had not been used for five months then engine stalls when I took it out.  First time it cut out after less than a minute.  Now it cuts in and out intermittently after about 7 mins running under load at 3,000 rpm then stops completely and will not start again for a while.

Engine has a large fuel filter with a water separator and fuel flows easily.  Gas is pure gas with no ethanol.

Have checked fuel pressure and it is a steady 30psi and I can hear the fuel pump still running briefly as it stalls, so I don't think it is the fuel pump.  Good spark when I turn it over on the key.

It feels as though the ignition switch is being turned off and on when it starts to cut in and out then stops completely as though I turned the ignition key off.  I don't believe that is what is happening though as the warning lights do not recycle the way they do when you turn the key on and off.  But there is no stutter or misfire, it is just either on power or off. 

I also have the ETEC diagnostic software it it does not show any active codes whilst it is running or when it starts to stall or stalls completely.

Starting to tear my hair out on this one.  Any help would be much appreciated!

tmd11111

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Posts: 82
Reply with quote  #2 
Probably be a good idea to check that 8 year old primer bulb for starters.
PhilH12

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Reply with quote  #3 
It surely sounds to me like a "fuel delivery" problem.  My first step would be to try running a bit slowly, like 2,000 - 2,500 rpms.  Does it still do the cutting in and out, even on longer trips?  (Hint: Circle around the ramp in case it does shut down.)

Then switch to a small portable tank with fresh fuel.  Try to drain the VST, etc. of as much old fuel as possible, then use the bulb to re-fill the system from the 'test' tank.

Second step would be the Clear Hose and Vacuum tests to make sure that you don't have air leaks or a restriction back toward the fuel tank.  Also insure that your existing tank is venting properly, but that would show on the vacuum test.

You do want to find the problem, as if it's running lean you can melt pistons, etc. and that won't be a happy day.

My 2007 was doing (it sounds) exactly what yours is doing.  I replaced everything from the pickup tube all the way to the engine, started cracking the fuel cap a bit when running, and never had another problem.

Hope it helps!

Phil

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Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
windseafire

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #4 
Just found a post on this site where someone had exactly the same problem with their ETEC 90, an intermittent crankshaft position sensor.

Does anyone know where this thing is located, I can't find that in the manual.
rickmcd53

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Posts: 2,433
Reply with quote  #5 
Remove the black plastic air silencer ( usually requires seperating the side covers). Crank position sensor is mounted at the top of the intake manifold near the flywheel. Look for metal shavings on the sensor.
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #6 
Rust particles from water rusted flywheel or stator will cause intermittent erratic CPS sensor output.
windseafire

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks everyone, I hope I can now get it fixed.
PhilH12

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by windseafire
2011 ETEC 90 with just 165 hrs.

I also have the ETEC diagnostic software it it does not show any active codes whilst it is running or when it starts to stall or stalls completely.

Starting to tear my hair out on this one.  Any help would be much appreciated! 


Might be just my ignorance, but wouldn't the CPS show faults if it was "erratic", rather than only affecting the engine bucking and stalling?

Then again, it's listed at $70.00 and looks fairly easy to do, so it may be worth replacing just to make sure.

EDIT:  PS - It may also be worth your while to order up a genuine Parts Manual.  The CPS is cross-referenced (with drawings) on multiple pages.

Phil

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Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #9 

To set CPS error code 16 and resulting LED 3 on EMM to light, requires 10 loss of sync pulses by the CPS in a very short time window.  Random loss of sync pulses will not set the code, error light on EMM or SW code light.
Also check the resistance and wiring of the CPS using instructions in correct model #  E. service manual

Post up in .pdf format, recent Engine History Report downloaded using E. Diagnostics software

Do Oly's basics
1. Compression and leakdown tests.

2. Monitor fuel pressure while running motor under load on the water 3000 rpms+

3.  Check multiple pulses on ignition coil and injector pulse wires while running with inductive timing light.  Make sure timing light pulses are all same brightness,  Oscilloscope is more accurate checking for same amplitude each pulse and accurate stable timing between pulses


10 instances
Generates current, separate Ground (NEG) 560 ± 10% @ 77°F (25°C)
Verify tachometer reading. Check CPS mounting and resistance. Inspect flywheel encoder ribs.
Air gap range: 00.036 to 0.110 in. (1 to 2.8 mm), nominal 0.073 in. (1.85 mm)

 

PhilH12

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelhead

To set CPS error code 16 and resulting LED 3 on EMM to light, requires 10 loss of sync pulses by the CPS in a very short time window.  



I'm surely not doubting the answer, but only hoping to learn more.  "A very short time window"?  Yes, I see the "10 pulses" in the SM, but that's under the "Time" column.  Does that mean "in this running" before it stalls out completely?  If I can start it again, does the count start over? (I would expect so).

Always Great Advice!  Just hoping to understand a bit more in this case of bucking and stalling like a fuel problem, but with No Codes showing.

Best!

Phil


__________________
Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
rickmcd53

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Reply with quote  #11 
Phil, Steelhead may be able to give a more detailed reply. In general computer controlled engine systems are programmed to ignore random minor "glitches".
If the CPS signal were set to code at 10 missed pulses in 1 second then it would be possible to have a misfire every 5 seconds with no codes. At each engine start the "counters" would start back at zero.
PhilH12

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Reply with quote  #12 
Thanks Rick!  I was thinking along those lines, but not sure with the "10 pulses" being in the 'Time' column in the SM.

May be a Sparky question?  What's the Time duration to set a Code?

Best at ya!

Phil

__________________
Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
windseafire

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #13 
FYI I found a post from SIZZLER back in 2016 which described the exact symptoms I was getting and why I suspected the cps and ordered a new one. I could not figure out how to copy the link so below are the contents of his post.


Symptom of failing CPS is usually:
1-Motor runs fine when cold but after several miles of wot operation, engine dies suddenly. Usually will restart immediately & repeat.
2-Motor runs fine when cold but after several miles of wot operation RPM becomes very erratic as if turning key off & on very erratically.
windseafire

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #14 
I changed the crankshaft position sensor and the engine now runs fine, no stalls, no issues at all.
PhilH12

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Posts: 3,358
Reply with quote  #15 
Great news!  Thanks for the follow up!  [thumb] 

Phil

__________________
Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
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