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Huey

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Reply with quote  #16 
No I would not think so.
Seafari

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Posts: 90
Reply with quote  #17 
Engine is in parts motor is off. They wont put it back together untill parts arrive in 11 days? No parts in stock at BRP? Can that be right? Feel like my boats been held at ransom right now. Cant even take it anywhere else for a second opinion.
Atitude has changed excuses are flying. Responcibility has been abandonded
sharkie

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Reply with quote  #18 
I hope you get it right mate. I had my out for 7 weeks, not a good feeling.
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Scottar

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Reply with quote  #19 
Unfortunately it is not an uncommon story across pretty much all products these days. Spare parts tie up a lot of money so unless they see a run on them, they order as required. There was a write up on a Yamaha 4 cylinder 200hp that needed a new powerhead on another forum I'm on - took 3 months to get his engine back. Not just the marine game either. A mate used to run a gearbox work shop - had clients cars tying a hoist/workshop space for months with some manufacturers due to parts availability. Believe it or not, 11 days (assuming it happens) is pretty good - means they have ordered and air freighted on at least a weekly basis. Some importers just tag the spares onto their monthly order which is how a two or three month delay ends up happening.
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Seafari

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottar
Unfortunately it is not an uncommon story across pretty much all products these days. Spare parts tie up a lot of money so unless they see a run on them, they order as required. There was a write up on a Yamaha 4 cylinder 200hp that needed a new powerhead on another forum I'm on - took 3 months to get his engine back. Not just the marine game either. A mate used to run a gearbox work shop - had clients cars tying a hoist/workshop space for months with some manufacturers due to parts availability. Believe it or not, 11 days (assuming it happens) is pretty good - means they have ordered and air freighted on at least a weekly basis. Some importers just tag the spares onto their monthly order which is how a two or three month delay ends up happening.


I understand this. But the boat as is with out the sensor was still operational. Heavy as it was i could still drive it. They did have time to put it together now they dont. Is thus common practice. All the equipment i work with i put back together even if it not 100 percent. Keep the other parts better protected and my clients have the oppotunity to use the equipment at a reduced capacity.
Plus the actual power steering is another matter. They believe it is not working at all because of the sensor. I am not so sure. As it was working directly before the EMM DPS 2017 04 update. Doesnt add up. I dont really believe in coincidence. Two days later the CTS was updated to match the EMM DPS update that removed a conflict and allowed me acces the DPS config screen. Still no power steering but a more persistent senosr error. What part does the sensor play in the feedback of the steering system? Any ideas? Can these sensors be bench tested? Could the DPS subsystem have been taken outsomehow during the update of the EMM if it was done incorrectly.
Seafari

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkie
I hope you get it right mate. I had my out for 7 weeks, not a good feeling.


Thanks sharkie. Not a good feeling to have a long weekend disruppted this way. Especially since ..well in this instance if the techs had of been onto it and had updated the software all at once as they should have done this would have been picked up during the 100 hours service 4 weeks ago. Knocking DPS and the CTS. I rang another crowd yesterday. The lady on the phone first asked me for my model and serial number and immeadiatly said you have an out standing udate that needs to be done. That was before i even gave her information on the fault and the situation i was in. BTW the update has been done. System report attaced somewhere in this thread cyrrent tech have not claimed against it.
I cant change the past i can only learn from it. Think ill be using this other crowd. They appear to have more resources and more experencend and trained techs on the etecs for future issues and serviceing.
Huey

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Reply with quote  #22 
You would think they would check stock availability before ripping and tearing the engine apart.
PhilH12

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Reply with quote  #23 
Sounds like a hard lesson learned on the first crowd.  [frown]

Best wishes for happy boating once it's sorted!

Phil

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20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
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Scottar

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Posts: 504
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafari
I understand this. But the boat as is with out the sensor was still operational. Heavy as it was i could still drive it. They did have time to put it together now they dont. Is thus common practice. All the equipment i work with i put back together even if it not 100 percent. Keep the other parts better protected and my clients have the oppotunity to use the equipment at a reduced capacity. Plus the actual power steering is another matter. They believe it is not working at all because of the sensor. I am not so sure. As it was working directly before the EMM DPS 2017 04 update. Doesnt add up. I dont really believe in coincidence. Two days later the CTS was updated to match the EMM DPS update that removed a conflict and allowed me acces the DPS config screen. Still no power steering but a more persistent senosr error. What part does the sensor play in the feedback of the steering system? Any ideas? Can these sensors be bench tested? Could the DPS subsystem have been taken outsomehow during the update of the EMM if it was done incorrectly.


Hard to comment as to whether reassembly of a faulty item while awaiting parts is standard practice - does raise the issue of who is paying for their time as pretty sure BRP wouldn't.  Not being privy to conversations between yourself and the tech and assuming it was made clear your wishes to have the boat available regardless and assurances were given then yes, it's a pretty poor outcome on the dealers part unless they or BRP feel that operation with the faulty sensor / DPS could induce further issues - there may be some concern over allowing a customer to use a vessel with a known steering issue from a legal perspective.

  Regardless I do understand the frustration of not having access to essentially a brand new item you have outlaid good money for - even more so with the implied possibility the issue was dealer induced. 

Given the fault code explanation - low steering pump pressure - it's not a long bow to draw to say that a possible cause is a hydraulic leak and the smarts then stop the pump. This could be to solicit a dual outcome - the retention of some sort of steering and the reduction in scale of any spill.

Can a sensor be bench tested - with the necessary test rig for sure - If one exists. Huey or one of the other dealers may have a better idea. If it hasn't to date been a common issue though, probably not at a guess. A test rig would need a way to generate the necessary hydraulic pressure (typically a hand pump similar to those used on a trolley jack) , a pressure gauge and some way of measuring the sensor output - which may be as simple as a multimeter to measure switch continuity or could require some sort of electronic interface depending on the complexity of the sensor.

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Seafarer Victory with a 200HO
E200DHXSDS. 05137215
Scottar

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Posts: 504
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafari
I understand this. But the boat as is with out the sensor was still operational. Heavy as it was i could still drive it. They did have time to put it together now they dont. Is thus common practice. All the equipment i work with i put back together even if it not 100 percent. Keep the other parts better protected and my clients have the oppotunity to use the equipment at a reduced capacity. Plus the actual power steering is another matter. They believe it is not working at all because of the sensor. I am not so sure. As it was working directly before the EMM DPS 2017 04 update. Doesnt add up. I dont really believe in coincidence. Two days later the CTS was updated to match the EMM DPS update that removed a conflict and allowed me acces the DPS config screen. Still no power steering but a more persistent senosr error. What part does the sensor play in the feedback of the steering system? Any ideas? Can these sensors be bench tested? Could the DPS subsystem have been taken outsomehow during the update of the EMM if it was done incorrectly.


Hard to comment as to whether reassembly of a faulty item while awaiting parts is standard practice - does raise the issue of who is paying for their time as pretty sure BRP wouldn't.  Not being privy to conversations between yourself and the tech and assuming it was made clear your wishes to have the boat available regardless and assurances were given then yes, it's a pretty poor outcome on the dealers part unless they or BRP feel that operation with the faulty sensor / DPS could induce further issues - there may be some concern over allowing a customer to use a vessel with a known steering issue from a legal perspective.

  Regardless I do understand the frustration of not having access to essentially a brand new item you have outlaid good money for - even more so with the implied possibility the issue was dealer induced. 

Given the fault code explanation - low steering pump pressure - it's not a long bow to draw to say that a possible cause is a hydraulic leak and the smarts then stop the pump. This could be to solicit a dual outcome - the retention of some sort of steering and the reduction in scale of any spill.

Can a sensor be bench tested - with the necessary test rig for sure - If one exists. Huey or one of the other dealers may have a better idea. If it hasn't to date been a common issue though, probably not at a guess. A test rig would need a way to generate the necessary hydraulic pressure (typically a hand pump similar to those used on a trolley jack) , a pressure gauge and some way of measuring the sensor output - which may be as simple as a multimeter to measure switch continuity or could require some sort of electronic interface depending on the complexity of the sensor.

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Seafarer Victory with a 200HO
E200DHXSDS. 05137215
ElderSparky

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Posts: 993
Reply with quote  #26 
A quick bench test of the pressure transducer is quite feasible.  The transducer provides an analog output proportional to the pressure applied to the port of the sensor.  Under atmospheric conditions on the port, the output voltage is a nominal 0.5V.  Fault code 214 literally means that the output voltage from the transducer, as sensed by the IPS module, is less than 0.12V. (DPS pump or helm #2 pressure circuit too low or disconnected).  Either the transducer has failed or the transducer has lost signal, power, or ground connection to the system, or the signal is being shorted to ground.  If you have output voltage under atmospheric conditions, there is really no reason to apply pressure to the transducer in order to verify higher pressure output voltages.
jimh

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Posts: 6,394
Reply with quote  #27 
Regarding electrical or electronic devices and spontaneous failures, I tend to have a firm belief in the theory of causation expressed by the Latin phrase, Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

In this case, that an electronic sensor would suddenly and spontaneously fail immediately following the application of a firmware updater patch suggests some possible linkage between the two events. There may not be a direct cause for failure in the firmware, but the facts that the engine was being worked on by a mechanic and some sort of electrical connection was made to the engine suggest to me that perhaps something unintended occurred in that process. Perhaps some wiring was disturbed, a hose was knocked loose, or some physical change was made that resulted in the problem with the pressure sensor. If we are to ignore such a linkage, then we must accept an amazing coincidence: the sensor spontaneously failed at just the moment when other elements of the electronic system were being changed. I don't believe in coincidences like that.

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Seafari

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Posts: 90
Reply with quote  #28 
Well all is now good. Appears this latest issue was a real fault. Power steering sensor failure. Replacement fixed my issues with power steering. Also spinng my new 18inch rebel. So WOT 5800. 76km Per hour and shes running sweet. About 4 hours on the water and all is well. Thankyou all for you support and help. Thanks guys.
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