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Riccardo

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Reply with quote  #1 
I've continuously driven my boat with a 200 HO G2 since the motor was new last year, and so I know very well how it runs - what speed and what fuel economy - at various rpms.  Last week I pulled the boat out of the water to redo the bottom paint and also took the opportunity to have my dealer check gear case oil and change filters and zincs (and troubleshoot some minor Icon 4.3 gauge issues).  Two days later the boat went back in the water (same propeller, same everything) and much to my surprise the boat's performance is noticeably diminished at every rpm, even when lightly loaded and in excellent sea conditions (smooth, calm, ideal).  Yet the boat acts as if I'm heavily loaded or in very rough seas in that I've lost several knots of speed and also lost a tenth or more of a nautical mile per liter in fuel economy at every rpm above 1500.  Moreover, I have lost at least 200 rpm off my WOT so that I am now below the guideline minimum.  I confirmed the diminished performance over two separate days and over multiple test runs at all engine speeds up to WOT. Yesterday I asked my dealer "what did you do?" and he's stumped, doesn't know what could have happened, and he's now setting up to come out on the boat so that he can connect his computer to try and figure out what happened.  Meanwhile, he assures me that it's safe to continue using the engine.  Any information, suggestions, or guidance that forum members can offer to explain why/how there could be such a dramatic step change, and/or whether it is indeed safe for the engine to keep operating until we figure things out would be very much appreciated.  Thanks in advance!
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2017 G2 200 HO 3.4L
29' custom wood epoxy sport dayboat
3000 lbs empty (no engine), 5500 lbs fully loaded (2-4 people)
alana

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Reply with quote  #2 
Something stirred up in the fuel when the boat was moved on to the hard? 
mead

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Reply with quote  #3 

When you say”filters” meaning more than one filter....Please specify which one one. Maybe some thing was disturbed there. 

my first suspicion goes to could Fouled spark plugs, or spark plugs losing the iridium pad on ground electrode.   This has been discussed in previous posts. 

jimh

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Reply with quote  #4 
Check all spark plug wires for any loose connection. Loss of spark in one cylinder could affect performance as described. Any sort of work on the engine with the cowling off could have disturbed a spark plug wire.
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cashcrews

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Reply with quote  #5 
Is it possible that redoing the bottom paint somehow added drag/resistance to the hull?
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steelhead

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Reply with quote  #6 

Check for air leaks at new filters.

Easy to do with clear fuel line section after large motor mounted filter.

Too easy to get one cross threaded, rubber seal roll up or just loose.

Fuel system air leaks kill motor quickly.

Riccardo

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thank you all.  The suggestions about spark plugs and/or air leaks seem to fit the situation, and I will pursue with dealer accordingly (though once he gets computer on the engine, I guess, he will see the spark plug issue(s) for himself if that is indeed what problem is). 

The dealer has told me it is safe for me to continue to drive the boat during the period before he can come next week; any counter suggestions regarding safety to engine, for example, running on fewer firing cylinders?

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2017 G2 200 HO 3.4L
29' custom wood epoxy sport dayboat
3000 lbs empty (no engine), 5500 lbs fully loaded (2-4 people)
PhilH12

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Reply with quote  #8 
If it's plugs, you should be OK to run a bit.  Air Leaks you could melt your engine by running lean, as steelhead mentioned.

Should be easy enough to get a piece of clear hose in the fuel line and look for air bubbles passing through.  There is virtually nothing that will warn you about that, unless you get the "Low VST Fuel" warning on your G2.

Phil

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Riccardo

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Reply with quote  #9 
Update:

So the dealer came out yesterday and hooked up his computer: he rules out fuel air leak (says engine wobble would be obvious, not to mention high temp).  Then he tests spark plugs and injectors, each cylinder in turn; rules out any problems there. Then we take boat out and run it at a variety of speeds.  He says that his computer shows higher travel speeds than boat's ICON Touch 4.3 which would explain apparent lower fuel economy reported on ICON.  (But he didn't say whether rpm is the same - according to the ICON I still have lost about 200 rpm from WOT). 

He will research software upgrade and/or reset/fix to correct apparent "inaccuracy" of ICON.  Meanwhile, he assures us the boat is safe to drive
.

I have long suspected that ICON isn't super accurate for speed and fuel economy but shouldn't it at least stay consistent?  Or do any of you know whether the ICON can drift in its readings (and whether it makes sense for the drift to occur immediately on the heels of service work)?

For now, I'm hopeful that the whole thing is only a ICON/software read-out issue, but it would be interesting to hear of others' experience in this area.  Thanks in advance!

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2017 G2 200 HO 3.4L
29' custom wood epoxy sport dayboat
3000 lbs empty (no engine), 5500 lbs fully loaded (2-4 people)
ElderSparky

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Reply with quote  #10 
I must disagree with a number of the latest statements.  My experience and knowledge of the 4.3" display shows different performance than that implied.

" He says that his computer shows higher travel speeds than boat's ICON Touch 4.3 which would explain apparent lower fuel economy reported on ICON."  What software was his computer using to display the vessel speed?  The 4.3" instrument does not have the ability to provide GPS speeds.  This data is obtained by a GPS device on the NMEA network and is broadcast for use by any other device on the network.  In this case, the 4.3" is using data provided to it by an independent device which generates GPS positional/velocity data.  If his computer was also using the same GPS data source, the vessel velocity readings will be identical within the display resolutions of two devices used to display the data.

The ICON Touch 4.3 utilizes the engine EMM as the source of engine RPM.  EvDiag software tool also uses this identical data for its RPM displays.  The numbers will match.  If your memory is correct in that you observed 200 RPM higher readings in the past then you can be sure that the engine has indeed lost 200 RPM.

Bench testing of the 4.3" instrument was performed by generating NMEA messages and observing the displayed data on the instrument.  By generating a fuel flow message (volume/time) to replace the EMM sourced flow data and a GPS message (distance/time) to replace the GPS puck data shows an exactly correct fuel economy value within the display resolution of the 4.3" instrument.  Admittedly, the test data did not account for any vertical motion of the vessel (up and down 10' swells for instance) but those will average out in actual use.

If you noticed a step change in fuel economy and/or engine RPM, be assured that the change is due to the 4.3" instrument receiving different data than previous - either increased fuel flow data from the engine (EMM) or lower vessel velocity from the GPS receiver which results in lower fuel economy figures.

IMO it may be that your fresh bottom paint has actually increased drag slightly for some reason.
jimh

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElderSparky
...it may be that your fresh bottom paint has actually increased drag slightly for some reason.


The bottom paint is really the most likely cause. We don't know anything about the new bottom paint or the old bottom paint. There could be a considerable difference. If the old bottom paint was nearly worn away, applying a heavy coat of new bottom paint would create a significant difference in the hull resistance to moving through the water. 

The notion that bottom paint causes additional drag and reduced boat speed is widely held.

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Riccardo

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Reply with quote  #12 
Thanks ElderSparky for an excellent explanation of how the ICON 4.3 works; it doesn't mean that the dealer is wrong but I'm now much better equipped to follow up.  Thanks!

And thanks to you and jimh too for the bottom paint idea - you're right, the new bottom pain is something that changed.  But it really seems odd if that's the culprit because the apparent smoothness of the old paint as it came out of the water (before it was power-washed) and the newly applied bottom paint seemed pretty much the same.  In both cases the surface appearance was "clean" (the old paint had weather 10 months continuously in the water and was in good condition, with little to no growth except a slight green scum at the waterline).  The new paint was dry and smooth to the touch (although applied no more than 30 hours before the boat went back in the water).  I'm not saying that the new paint can't be the reason for the diminished speed and fuel economy, but it seems very strange.  Well, owning a boat is a learning experience!  Thanks again [thumb]
 

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2017 G2 200 HO 3.4L
29' custom wood epoxy sport dayboat
3000 lbs empty (no engine), 5500 lbs fully loaded (2-4 people)
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #13 

Did you refuel boat after paint/service with different retail station source, switch brands, real gasoline to 10% ethanol mix?

Fuel changes often cause noticeable changes on heavy large boats
I lose as much as 10% on fuel economy and several mph top end with full 10% ethanol mixes or some of the off brand cheap no name stations.

jimh

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Reply with quote  #14 
In addition to variations if fuel energy content, environmental factors also influence boat and engine performance. For minor variations like the 200-RPM change being discussed, the cause could be due to changes in air temperature, humidity, and water temperature. Cold and dry air produces more engine power output than warm and moist air. Propeller efficiency increases in colder and denser water.

When comparing boat performance from test runs taken many days apart, it can be difficult to control for changes in air and water temperature.

Wind is another factor that could easily influence boat and engine speed. Sea state is also an influence.

I am not sure I would even notice a change in engine speed at full throttle of only 200-RPM unless I was especially looking for it. Many tachometers only report engine speed in increments of 50-RPM or more. Reading engine speed with precision so that a 200-RPM change is clear is usually not easily done.

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Riccardo

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Reply with quote  #15 
Thanks steelhead: no, no fueling nor any kind of special fuel; same old, same old.  (Plus, my boat is pretty lightweight.)

Thanks jimh: the weather has been warm, so maybe performance could be explained in terms of increased air and water temps; but it has been warm all summer, and test runs were all made in near ideal conditions, smooth sea and still air: so still sort of a mystery. 

I've looked more into the bottom paint idea; it's possible but seems unlikely given all the data I have from before and after the recent haul-out.

So this leaves me hoping it's simply some kind of software glitch on the ICON.  Next time out on the boat I will compare ICON reported boat speed to the speed measure by an app on my iPhone.  If they are about the same then it seems like ICON data is trustworthy and loss of performance is real.  If speeds vary then ICON software is suspect.  A reasonable approach?

Thanks again everyone.


PS - what is the etiquette for what to post here vs. E-nation Owner's Zone (https://community.evinrude.com/t5/Owner-s-Zone/bd-p/TEC)??  And or should I also post (some kinds of inquiry) at the Hull Truth (https://www.thehulltruth.com/)?  I don't want to clog up the forums with redundant questions but I don't understand what should go where... Guidance is appreciated :-) 
 

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2017 G2 200 HO 3.4L
29' custom wood epoxy sport dayboat
3000 lbs empty (no engine), 5500 lbs fully loaded (2-4 people)
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