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dkstenson

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #1 
I have a cat and run twin G2's.
Its a heavy old boat but fitted with hydrofoils I get great performance.
I had an issue with the Port side engine dropping from tilted up overnight to being back in the water.
As engines are less than 1 year old Evinrude supplied a mid section for it to be changed.
This took about 3 to 4 weeks to arrange and arrive at the dealers.

Last weekend I had a lift out and thought a great opportunity to have the engines serviced whilst at it.

The powerhead and engine were fully dismantled from the ram section, and the new mid section mounted to the transom.

The engine was then offered back up and all electrical connections etc remade.

The engine was then serviced along with the starboard engine.
Plugs, gearbox oil, impeller.
No diags or ECU hook up was made, but engines were started and ran for 30 seconds each.

The next day I was launched and pulled away from dockside.
I did get the feeling there was something not quite right as Portside engine "appeared" to be providing a bit of vibration and would flutter 50 to 100 revs.. I say appeared to vibrate as it was only on revs up to 2000 it was noticeable.

3 hours later, whilst travelling at 3800 revs the port side engine dropped revs, started clanging and vibrating like ,merry hell.
I thought i had a rope around the prop so lifted engine and it was fine.

Restarted engine and limped back to port on 600 revs on port engine and 2800 on starboard engine.

Upon returning to the yard the guys who had waved me off said they unanimously tried waving me back as the sound from the port engine was in their words awful.. It drowned out the starboard engine completely. (I have to say I didnt notice this being in a closed cabin)

The engineer after changing the injector to cylinder 4 which was diagnosed as the faulty bore did a compression check and there was none. He suspected this was to be the case as the electrode on the spark plug was bent where something had hit it.

They have taken the head off and found a chunk of the piston on the exhaust port side is missing. 

Why???
Why would something like this happen?
Engineers have said it could be that the ECU started telling it to fire wrong time, but does that then mean the ECU needs replacing?

The engines had their 1 year old anniversary 2 weeks ago and now have 256 hours on them.
Prior to this the only faults I have had apart from the ram, was an injector fault on cylinder number 4 on the starboard engine.. In fact the same injector has failed twice..

Any help, reasons for above happening received with thanks.

Cheers

Dave (UK)

steelhead

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Reply with quote  #2 

What type of gas being used?  Ethanol?  Any water in fuel?
Boat fuel filter description?

Sounds like your "engineers" are just guessing with no data on the EMM.

Injectors all needed to be tested by BRP engineering or independent professional injector service shop.

Boat fuel systems for both must be checked for air leak bubbles test with clear hose at motor and maximum fuel system vacuum at input to motor.

Are there individual fuel tank pickups and filters for each motor?  Critical

Post up Model and Serial number for both motors so the dealers and techs on here can check for warranty service done and why.  May be some missed updates.

Are the foils adjustable angle while running?  Would help with more/less lift while running in different sea conditions.

Love the light tackle thresher fishing.  The huge jumps out of them are beyond impressive.  That tail can do real damage to the boat and fishermen.


dkstenson

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks Steelhead... 

You are dead right, there was no fault codes showing when computer plugged in.
It was diagnosed as cylinder 4 when each cylinder in turn was shut down and number 4 made no difference.

Everything was disconnected from the Port engine when the new centre Ram section was replaced, including fuel lines and every electrical connection and fluid connection.

I have 2 filters in use. The first being a Racor water separator which is as clean as the day it was fitted, and the standard engine fitted fuel filter which was changed at service.
Each engine has its own dedicated tank.

Standard UK fuel is 95 Octane and contains up to 5% ethanol.
These engines are always run on standard petrol fuel.
I only ever use XD100 Oil.

I popped down to boat to get serial numbers of the engines and again one of the yard guys mentioned how awful the port engine sounded when I pulled away..
(This is now worrying me as it would have been running less than 10 minutes since service was completed) apparently it sounded that bad it drowned the other engine out.
Serial Number Port.jpg 

This is the serial number of the engine that has gone POP. It has never had any warranty work except the replacement Hydraulic ram section which was replaced at Service time last week.

Serial Number Starboard.jpg 

This is the serial number of the starboard engine which has had 2 lots of warranty work donw since new.
First was Injector number 4 failing at 57 hours. The second was Injector number 4 failing (Again) at 230 hours.

Thanks for your help gents.

The amount of Threshers in our waters is growing year on year. The reports and sightings of them jumping has reached proportions like never seen before.. :-)

steelhead

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Reply with quote  #4 
Your commercial boat and its special design is all over the internet, E-TEC board, FB, lots of fishing sites.
We all will be watching how BRP UK responds and how well they do with the repair.  The world is watching.
Will affect sales in UK and EU.

UK and EU use RON octane number, US and Ca. use AKI.  Your 95 RON is approx the same as our 90 octane AKI. BRP/E. specs 87 AKI here which is about the same as your 92 RON in the UK.

Hooked 2 threshers over the years here on the Pac. NW coast albacore trolling.  0 and 2.  Never will land one with less than 100lb test but its fun while they're on.  Heart stopping jumps.
Get some video on your next thresher jumps and post FB and your business page.

Sounds like your boat and motors are well dialed in now until the one motor blew.
dkstenson

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #5 
Its been out of the water now for 1 week, hopefully new powerhead will be here tomorrow.
A photo of the piston where you can see an edge had broken away exposing the piston ring. Piston.jpg 

steelhead

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Reply with quote  #6 

Either ring jacking from carbon buildup in the lands or swallowed a reed.  Piece of ring land or reed impacted the piston multiple times.

Lots of carbon buildup on piston tops, when it gets white hot, sets off preignition.

Using XD100 lube?

Do you run E. Carbon Guard in every tank of fuel?

What's the motor temperatures when running fully loaded at normal cruise rpms and WOT?

UK has some the best cleanest gasoline in the world, all that N. Seas light crude, UK also gets much of the US highly volatile light shale oil, they pay the premium price for it.

BRP is responding quickly, full dressed powerhead to UK in few days.

dkstenson

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #7 
The engine was run for a further hour when the fault developed.
We assumed it was an injector down and ended up on 600 revs whilst good engine was powering 2600 revs to get us home.

(A friend has had multiple engine failures where the reed has been to blame.. :-( )

XD100 is used only. (55 gallon drums adorn the garage)

E. Carbon Guard... This is a new one.. Never heard of it. Will be googling it with a view to using if its beneficial.

Its been a Bank Holiday here UK, so that will have impacted delivery.

Also the day delay as we believed it was on its way but they wanted photos.

If it can be back in the water this week then not to much of a disruption.

Powertech (UK Dealers here) are really on the ball. I am certain its them pushing for a quick resolution.
wanker

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Posts: 112
Reply with quote  #8 
Is the E carbon guard needed for every tank of gas? If so need to talk to one of my friends that is running the newer versions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steelhead

Either ring jacking from carbon buildup in the lands or swallowed a reed.  Piece of ring land or reed impacted the piston multiple times.

Lots of carbon buildup on piston tops, when it gets white hot, sets off preignition.

Using XD100 lube?

Do you run E. Carbon Guard in every tank of fuel?

What's the motor temperatures when running fully loaded at normal cruise rpms and WOT?

UK has some the best cleanest gasoline in the world, all that N. Seas light crude, UK also gets much of the US highly volatile light shale oil, they pay the premium price for it.

BRP is responding quickly, full dressed powerhead to UK in few days.

steelhead

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Reply with quote  #9 
dk's boat is a new commercial charter fishing CAT hull design with lifting foils.  Large and heavy with 12+ customers aboard with all gear.  More susceptible to carbon buildup with extra fuel and oil being pumped through the motors.

dk,
looks like a large section of the port on the left side of cylinder was also broken out.  I'm going with carbon ring jacking now, Carbon builds up in land under the top ring,  forces ring out until it catches on port edge on the up stroke.  Something has to give, port edge, ring, piston.

Never seen the new G2s throw a reed yet, lots of them running commercial guide boats here with couple thousand hours+

Any knock counts showing in the EMM readout on failed motor?  May be time to step up one grade higher octane in gasoline or change brands to higher quality.  Ethanol laced gas is very dry, little to no lubricity, strips much of the lubrication off cylinders.  Or add 1 oz of XD100 per every 2 gals of gas in tank for extra lubricity if stuck with running ethanol fuel.  With the good old gas back in the 50s and 60s one could feel the greasiness of the gas rubbing the fingers together.
dkstenson

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #10 
New powerhead was fitted yesterday. All went well and was completed in a few hours.
Whilst the boat was out I decided to have the leading edge onto the foils glassed in to provide a smooth entry onto them.
Todays relaunch and trials went well.
Across a full flood tide (Tide pushing 2 to 3 knots) at 4500 revs we maintained a steady 31 knots with fuel consumption combined of 3.4 litres per mile.
Engine temp was 66 degrees at this comfortable most economical speed.

The difference once opened up to WOT was not drastic other than in terms of lack of performance... it opened up to 5600 revs, temp hit 68/69 degrees but speed only increased up to 35 knots.
This was however all done with Itrim engaged, and once at WOT it benefits from me trimming it myself..

More than happy with the results on speed / fuel consumption, and the revs are below the 4700 at which I believe the oil consumption is increased.

Hopefully the piston failure was just a blip and I can look forward to many years trouble free boating. :-)

dkstenson

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #11 
Well that didnt last long...
Started off well this morning..
33 knots, 4550 revs, 38 mph (33 knots), 111 litres of fuel per hour.. Full crew of anglers on board.

15 minutes sea trial from Thursday, 25 minutes run time today and gearbox failure..
It started with a whining noise above 3000 rpm.
I called engineer who advised to limp back with engine revs reduced on suspect engine (The new powerhead side).
Bang... drive lost, engine revs went sky high and oil on water...

When the powerhead was being fitted to gearbox, there was half a dozen o-rings that were fitted to countersunk grooves...
Inside one of the grooved raised areas there was an elongated rough edged hole... I would say with 100% conviction it was not a design issue, as the edges were rough and the hold not round..
I mentioned this to the engineer by way of "Crikey, this hole shouldnt be there surely... Its odd shaped and rough around the edges"..
The response was... Im not sure, its probably nothing..
I guess im wondering if water could have gotten into the gearbox now...
Whatever... It turns out total running time on these engines is now less than 11 whole days.
Port engine was fine until I had the mid section replaced and engine serviced..
3 hours later a catastrophic piston fault.
Then a further 40 minutes later a catastrophic gearbox failure...

I suspect the starboard engine is also faulty..
Since new I have had 2 injector failures on this engine... Both times on cylinder number 4..
Today the engine started displaying the exact same faults as previous... Vibration... Lumpy running... Noisy running.... Fluttering revs dropping between 200 - 300 when above 2500 revs.
If as i suspect its cylinder 4 again then should they be looking for a cause?

Went from smiling joyful happy with the performance this morning to... Damn these ruddy engines.. :-)

steelhead

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Reply with quote  #12 
Hard hit on business bottom profit line, lost customers and business.

Who is the "Engineer"?  Someone from BRP UK?

Thought BRP had cleared up all the problems with the G2 3.4L.

You able to get out in the ocean fishing year around?
dkstenson

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #13 
When the engine first blew i was 2 days into an 8 day contract with a big American film company. (NDA's signed prohibiting me from saying which film etc)
I had completed 2 days and was taken off contract for the remaining 6 days. (I was to be used as a base boat for Hollywood actors). A once in a lifetime contract for me.

Very special contract lost, and hit hard on lost earnings... Then followed up with further cancelled trips, and returned deposits and payments.
Now more cancelled trips, whilst waiting for remedial actions. Nothing to say of the £2100 lift fees so far for these works.

Powertech UK supplied and service the engines. Not sure if they are actually from BRP.

Have BRP had known issues with these engines? I say that because the contract for the American film group, one of the Directors got on board, and all the American guys were commenting on the fact I was running big Evinrudes here in the UK. First thing one of them said was along the lines of.. "Have you had any gearboxes blow yet"

Yes, here in the UK we can get out all year round.. The weather can mean we get some trips called off, but I am Portsmouth Harbour UK where we can often find shelter because we have the Isle Of Wight to shelter behind

blackmagic

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Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #14 
This whole story just makes me sad. Once in a lifetime contract... Just damn. I don't know if that taste would ever leave my mouth.
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1983 24 Superboat, 2016 G2 250 HO E250LHAGB
dkstenson

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #15 
(This whole story just makes me sad. Once in a lifetime contract... Just damn. I don't know if that taste would ever leave my mouth.)

Two years ago myself and my partner Caroline decided we wanted to embark on this. She would crew so we could spend more time together.
Soon after we commissioned the boat she was diagnosed with breast cancer. She underwent Chemotherapy, Radiotherapy, herceptin.
The boat was launched and we looked forward not backwards.
Since then the tumours have now been found in her lungs, her liver, and 6 weeks ago we were told she now has cancer in her bones.
Last week we were told her headaches are because tumours have now been found in her brain (CT Scan).
She still smiles, she still laughs, she still looks forward to getting out on the boat. She was to crew for the Warner Bros contract, but her health dictated she couldn't.
Tomorrow she has an MRI scan booked, whilst the boat needs attention lest it becomes a non working boat that rots away yet still needs paying for.
Consultants have said they dont know whether it is months (How many) or even a year Caroline has left.
I always try to remain neutral and think things happen for a reason.
What I do know is the saga is wearing her down and that in turn hurts me more.
Im not writing for sympathy, but moreso behind every story is another story, and ours is that time is against my partner and this episode is fast becoming a burden. 
I hope Evinrude stand by their product. Moreso so that I can enjoy putting to sea with Caroline at my side whilst we still have time together. (She is 47)  Caroline's Back.jpg 

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