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GrizzledBastard

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Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #1 
I'm running a 4 month old Interstate Group 24, 800 CCA, 1000 MCA. She's been flawless since the install and is a replacement for the identical that lasted a full 7 years that was kept on a permanent mounted 8A charger/maintainer.

With the onset of Fall season, temps are dropping significantly (45* F) at night, and obviously in the mornings, and I'm running this boat 3-4 days a week. I've noticed as temps drop in the morning over the last week or so, she's been slower cranking when first pulling the boat off the trailer at zero dark-thirty in the morning. I've attributed this to air temp as once I get on the water and make a few fishing spot stops, she never cranks slow and always fires immediately for the remainder of the day. At the end of every outing, she gets plugged into a charger. Alternator is kicking out a solid charge as indicated on my ammeter

This morning, there wasn't enough "ooomph" to get her started and off the trailer. She was only 20 minutes from being on the charger/maintainer. I figured that maybe I have a bad battery and took it into my Interstate distributor. They load tested it and say it's good. They loaded it at 800A for 15 seconds multiple times and it didn't drop below their minimums of 9.6V though it got close. This testing was all done in 75* F temps. I brought it home, along with a spare used battery with lesser CCA and the spare fired the motor as did the suspect battery. I then went through every single connection point from battery, to Perko, to solenoid, and to starter, as well as the ground to block. I'll try in the morning again and see. The only possible anomaly I saw was the positive terminal stud on the low edge of the starter that is double nutted, was a bit loose on its attachment into the starter housing. I snugged that carefully after cleaning and reconnected everything.

Is there anything that anybody has experienced that could be happening in the starter or solenoid that would cause temperature related sluggishness? My experience has always been they either fail or they work. Tomorrows test will give me an idea if I solved the issue but I figured I'd start the process in case I should be looking somewhere other than the battery.


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2005 E75DPLSOR
S/N: 05076819
Nordmann

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Reply with quote  #2 
Easiest way to check for poor connections is to use a set of jumper cables from the battery+ to solenoid+ and - to good earth. If starter still cranks slowly, problem is either or both solenoid and starter.
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Nordmann.

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jimh

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Reply with quote  #3 
The easiest way to cause very expensive damage to a modern engine with millions of transistors is to use jumper cables. I recommend avoiding use of jumper cables unless there is an emergency situation and life or valuable property is at stake. 

If Evinrude recommends to NEVER use a battery with wing nuts, you can imagine what they would think about using spring-tension clip-on connections to the battery.

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GrizzledBastard

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Reply with quote  #4 
Precisely why I didn't attempt a jump this morning. It would have been easy for me to work with a brand new battery from the low side of my 24V trolling motor but with these delicate EMM's it was easier to forego the morning on the water and just roll home and get right to the issue at hand. At least now I know ALL my connections are 100% and I can go from there if it persists.
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2005 E75DPLSOR
S/N: 05076819
Nordmann

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Reply with quote  #5 
I never suggested to use jumpers from another battery. That can cause spikes. 

The suggestion was to use jumpers from the battery, in parallel with existing positive and negative cables. 

If there were a poor connection in the system, jumpers would assist in preserving the EMM. 

As OP tried to crank the engine as it was, there was a chance to blow the EMM if there was a loose connection, which would have much the same effect as loose wingnuts.

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Nordmann.

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rideoutr

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Reply with quote  #6 
" The only possible anomaly I saw was the positive terminal stud on the low edge of the starter that is double nutted, was a bit loose on its attachment into the starter housing. I snugged that carefully after cleaning and reconnected everything."
                                                                                                                                                Bet ya a beer you found your problem!!!

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jimh

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Reply with quote  #7 
While your narrative describes a general decrease in battery power with decreasing ambient temperature, to have a new, fully-charged large-capacity battery suddenly be unable to even attempt to crank over the E-TEC engine when the air temperature drops below 50-degrees is very unusual. More likely, the cause of the no-crank situation is a circuit discontinuity. In 12-Volt DC circuits there is not enough voltage to bridge across any sort of circuit discontinuity, and even the smallest layer of corrosion or insulation will stop the flow of current. 

The cold overnight temperatures may have caused water to condense from the air (dew), and the condensation may have affected some electrical connections.

Carefully inspect all electrical connections in the high-current portion of the engine starting circuit. A connection may look like it is making a good circuit, but there can be hidden corrosion that stops the flow of current, or in some instances, acts as a resistance and cause all the voltage to be dropped across that bad connection.

Use of WD40 on any suspect electrical connection, along with loosening of the connection, removal of the conductors, and gentle burnishing of the contact surfaces by wet-sanding them with 400-grit emery cloth wetted with WD40, then reassembly of the cleaned connectors, should restore the starting circuit to operation.

If you have a good voltmeter and some skill in using it, you can connect a voltmeter across various components in the starting circuit, and then you can read the voltage drop across those connections during engine cranking. There should be extremely low voltage drop across any connection point in the circuitry from battery post to engine solenoid and starter motor.

For more advice on finding problems in outboard engine electrical starting circuits, read my article at

ELECTRIC STARTING CIRCUITS
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/electricStart.html

The article lists about 50 circuit elements to check for good connection. It also offers advice specific to the E-TEC engine starting circuit, which includes a circuit path through the engine EMM that can affect engine starting.

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alana

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Posts: 546
Reply with quote  #8 
The starting problem on mine turned out to be the earth cable fraying where it went into the motor. Years of trimming and steering takes its tole. Starter got slower and slower the more the cable frayed, how the motor managed to start at all is amazing
ENichols56

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Posts: 8
Reply with quote  #9 
Do you have the new starter with the planetary gear? I made the Swap and it solved all my cold start issues on my 2005 90 https://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1288599869&postcount=6&forum=136483
GrizzledBastard

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Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENichols56
Do you have the new starter with the planetary gear? I made the Swap and it solved all my cold start issues on my 2005 90 https://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1288599869&postcount=6&forum=136483


Very interesting info. Thanks for that!
I had gone through all the connections just as JimH had suggested and ultimately just as his write-up described though I had completed that task prior to his post. That is a great explanation as written, btw! Thanks for that JimH!

I have only had 1 opportunity for a true cold start and I believe there is improvement. A hint of typical sluggishness is still present but it turned through satisfactorily to fire. I couldn't find any voltage drops during a starting load across any of the connections. Everything is indicating nothing less than about 11V, give or take a few 10ths. I haven't metered it in the absolute cold, though...just cranked to start.

I believe I'm running the original starter. Only about 400 hrs on this unit and I don't think the original owner changed it out. Is there a part number stamped into the starter so I can verify? I really like the sound of the upgrade starter and would be willing to go that route if I find it hasn't been done. Nothing wrong with having the OEM unit sitting in a spares box to be prepared for a future, unexpected need. From the looks of Seahorse's linked post, I deduced that there must have been a known issue regarding cold starts?

I don't have to winterize my boat for winter like so many are forced to and I fully intend to stick to my multi-day per week fishing schedule through our winter here on the central coast of CA. Not having to go through this again on our freezing mornings sounds real good to me!

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2005 E75DPLSOR
S/N: 05076819
bunkergroup

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Posts: 315
Reply with quote  #11 
The upgrade starter mentioned has a half cover over the bevel gear which requires the plastic cover around the flywheel to be trimmed somewhat .
ENichols56

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Posts: 8
Reply with quote  #12 
Here is a pic of the newer version

https://outboard-boat-motor-repair.com/parts/587007%20Starter

The old one looks more like this

https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/johnson-omc-marine-starter-80-85-90-100-112-115-120-125-130-135-140.html?&mrkgcl=1145&mrkgadid=3348114544&product_id=SAB0062&adpos=1o1&creative=231326139301&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=Cj0KCQjwivbsBRDsARIsADyISJ-Mwf4b_S1Wazmsm6l2wTX7ui0rAV2grX8MwxKD_vCbLORlinPACzYaAqkBEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I chased the same issue you're having with new batteries, voltage drops etc. I'd think it was better after a new battery, but then eventually the cold start problems would start again.  Once I got the new starter, no problems at all.  The original starter just didn't have the torque to get the motor moving when it was completely cold.  After the first start, there would never be another problem all day.  FWIW I didn't replace that cover that is mentioned in the post by seahorse.  I should probably cut a hole in it as mentioned, but for now it is just resting on top of the new model starter.
GrizzledBastard

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Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENichols56
The original starter just didn't have the torque to get the motor moving when it was completely cold.  After the first start, there would never be another problem all day.  FWIW I didn't replace that cover that is mentioned in the post by seahorse.  I should probably cut a hole in it as mentioned, but for now it is just resting on top of the new model starter.




Precisely my experience. Only that first start getting off the trailer is where I have an issue. It never balked once after getting past that point.

I have the original starter. There is no hood over the gearing.

I think I'll throw a little money at the problem and go with the upgrade.

Thanks for all the input, gang!

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2005 E75DPLSOR
S/N: 05076819
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