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WhiteOwl

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Reply with quote  #1 

MODEL # E250DPXSDR   SERIAL # 05127191   1300 hours   Year 2006

I bought this engine new in 2006,  replaced the EMM two years ago  runs great

I seldom use this boat these days so it sits for prolonged periods and when it is run it is usually for only an hour or two. I ran it three weeks ago and all was well. Ran it yesterday. After about 45 mins at 4200/4300 rpm cruise I slowed to an idle for about ten minutes to go through a no-wake zone. Then it was back to cruise. I hit some rough water and slowed to about 3500/3700 rpm. Boat was barely on plane and it is a hard push. The overheat alarm went off, light was on, and the engine started vibrating and slowing. I went to neutral and cut the engine off. After about two minutes I restarted the engine and the alarm did not activate. I throttled up and the alarm did not activate again. I idled for about thirty minutes and then back up to cruise. After about fifteen minutes it was back to idle for about thirty minutes. I was in a bad patch of water when I throttled back up and only pushed it to about 3800. After about three minutes the alarm activated again. Same as above, I shutdown and after a minute or two I restarted and went on my way. It seems it only activated the alarm in the 3500 to 3800 range. If I could run the normal cruise I was fine and at idle / fast idle speed I was fine. On the run home I tried to keep the cruise speed up but if I had to slow I had to deal with the alarm. Probably eight times or so during an hour run. During this entire time the tell-tale water pump stream was strong.  My first question is this: since the alarm did not activate after immediate restart and I could run at cruise okay, was the engine actually hot? (When the motor was new it would sometimes alarm after a ten minute idle and a restart would correct it. A software update cured it then.) So, I wonder if it may be in the EMM somehow. If it actually is hot I can try some trouble shooting. If is is probably something in the system I'll have to get on the list at the dealer. I understand you can't know for sure but what do you think?


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Kinston NC
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #2 
When was the water pump last serviced with a complete Evinrude WP kit with cup and new
seals?

Last service on the PRV?

Boat beached on sand or ran through sandy, dirty waters?

Any new items mounted on the transom near the overheating motor affecting water flow?
 
Please post up an Engine Profile report from the EMM after overheat started.

Salt water motor?

Motor water pressure gauge?


WhiteOwl

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Reply with quote  #3 
 Service with pump was  when the EMM was replaced. I don't beach but do run aground occasionally. (It's eastern NC) Boat configuration is unchanged since 2006. Run exclusively since new in saltwater. no pressure gauge. I have no idea what a PRV is. If I have the EMM report I would still not know the answer to the question. The alarm is going off so I think the EMM will still record a heat issue even if the motor is not hot.  It's the week of the fourth, I am not going to get the EEM report from the dealer for a long time. The most pertinent part of my question is "if the motor was actually running hot would the alarm still be on after restarting the motor". If the answer is no , that means it could cool enough to cancel the heat alarm in less than a minute and then run for twenty minutes at 4300 rpms without getting too hot again, and that tells me to start with the thermostats and pump. If the answer is yes, then it won't cool that fast then the issue is probably in the system not the motor.
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Kinston NC
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #4 
Thermostats are NOT involved in motor cooling above 2000 rpms
Above 2000 rpms, PRV ONLY pressure relief valve, mounted on hoses feeding heads.

Coolant temperature sensor system and overheat alarm in the EMM are very reliable. 

EMM places motor into SAFE mode, limited rpms which makes motor run rough fuel injections restricted.  If motor temperatures continue to rise due to plugging, failed pump, etc, EMM puts motor in shut down for protection.

Temperature alarms in these are activated by any of three devices
 
too hot EMM due to restricted cooling water>plugged cooling heat sink tube internally or water feed tubes from block through EMM>VST>to outflow,

2 temperature sensors mounted in the heads which feed temperature signals to EMM.

Simplistic low cost System Watch system will not notify operator if it's one of the heads or the EMM overheating.  EMM and NMEA2000 codes will.

Desperate throw some parts measures.

Put in new E. water pump kit

Clean all the tubes feeding the EMM>VST>overflow tell tale outlets and the internal passages in the EMM and VST.  Blow thru all to test for clear.

Replace PRV pressure relief valve with new.  I'd also put in the lower pressure PRV spring.

Gone fishing

Gotsea

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Reply with quote  #5 
WO, you mention going through  a patch of  rough water, it could be that you were getting aeriated water not sufficient to cool the engine, it will help to run EvDiag and see what went off EMM or heads as
S H indicated, also I recommend some kind of temp monitoring means as well as a water pressure  sensor so you can catch the event before the alarm goes off.

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1994 24 WA Baha
2008 300 HP DPXSC S/N 05228253
15 1/4 X 19 Mirage Plus 47 MPH top end @ 5,750 RPM
32 MPH cruising @ 12.5 g/h
 South Florida
WhiteOwl

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Reply with quote  #6 
thank you for all the replies. I don't think the aeration could be the problem but that is a good thought. I'll put it in the shop and see what I can find until I can get it to a dealer. I don't have the software to diagnose from the memory. Good suggestions on things to check. I'll enjoy learning more about how this thing works. Now to find those PRVs.
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Kinston NC
PhilH12

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Reply with quote  #7 
A Genuine Service Manual (like from Barnacle Bill's) will surely help in your learning.  It does seem "daunting" at first, but it does come together fairly quickly.  [smile]

When I first got mine it was "Oh, Crap", but really not so bad.  That EV Diag software and cable is a bit more, but will also pay for itself in trips and wait-time at the dealer.

Good luck and let us know!

Phil

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Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
crabby

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Reply with quote  #8 
How is the water stream from the tell tale?  You may have some debris blocking the flow, simple task to remove, clean/blow out, and replace.
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2009 250 3.3l ETEC/22 BW Outrage with Whaler Drive (bracket), 15 pitch Rebel
WhiteOwl

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Reply with quote  #9 
Crabby,  good suggestion but it the stream is strong at all rpms.

Phil, thanks for the encouragement and the suggestions. both welcome.

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Gotsea

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Reply with quote  #10 
WO, do you have a decent MFD? if yes then you should connect to your engine via NMEA 2000 (if compatible), that way you could have all the engine  information display and see temps live before the alarm goes off, or realized that you have a bad sensor or something else, 
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1994 24 WA Baha
2008 300 HP DPXSC S/N 05228253
15 1/4 X 19 Mirage Plus 47 MPH top end @ 5,750 RPM
32 MPH cruising @ 12.5 g/h
 South Florida
WhiteOwl

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Posts: 37
Reply with quote  #11 
thanks Gottsea, but I don't have any of the electronic gadgetry. I have always been a "keep it simple, analog tach" guy. Although I do see the need and I may invest in the software. I have gotten the thermostats out. At first the caps did not want to unscrew so after a search on here I realized I should have been removing them as a regular part of service. I had a six point 1 1/2" socket and with that a and a good sized pull handle I got port side out and almost all of the stbd side. Getting the remnant of the stbd side out wasn't much of a problem but I was very surprised at the crud that was exposed there. I am meticulous about flushing after use but obviously that is not enough. It is going to take awhile to clean the threads on the housing and clean the crud as best I can. I've got the thermostat parts coming from Bill's. Next I'll open up the PRV (found it) and I suspect it will be as bad as the thermostats. Thanks for all the advice.
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Kinston NC
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #12 

The telltale pee stream is an indication of some water flow only, not a good indication of quality and output of the water pump.

Water pumps impellers fins take a permanent set due to offset impeller in cup and rubber permanently hardening in bent position when not run at least once a week or more often.
Should be replaced yearly if not ran more than once a month.

E. tech. dept. recommends E. Triple Guard grease on the thermostat seal cap threads.

Try switching up the flushing, one time on muffs, next on hose connection back of motor.  Changes flow direction.  I use a SaltAway type product every trip flush to remove any salt buildup deposits before they cause problems.  And a low concentration bleach solution or a boat hull cleaner that kills algae and marine growth in the SaltAway hose mixer cup usually at the boat launch at pull out and then follow with fresh water flush at home/storage.

Outboard and inboard marine engines that use block motor and exhaust salt water cooling are the worst environments for engines.  Surprising the E-TECs  blocks and other aluminum parts that get exposed to hot salt water and 1000d F exhaust temperatures last as long as they do.

An E. Service Manual and all the motor details it covers will help you in DIY servicing.  Joe at BB's top of page can easily ship you one quickly.  Lots of torque specs and service need to do's for long motor life.

Some other ideas and solutions:



Gotsea

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Reply with quote  #13 
WO the "electronic gadgetry" as you put it is not as complicated as it sounds, I assuming you most have a  GPS/map depth finder in your boat or so call MFD (multi function display) if that is the case all it takes is a connection from your engine to that "gadget" and you can have all the engine info available to be display live as you run your boat, I have 15 yrs old Lowrance that give me all I need to know,

Cheers

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1994 24 WA Baha
2008 300 HP DPXSC S/N 05228253
15 1/4 X 19 Mirage Plus 47 MPH top end @ 5,750 RPM
32 MPH cruising @ 12.5 g/h
 South Florida
WhiteOwl

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Posts: 37
Reply with quote  #14 
Gotsea,  I think I need to up my game with the info available. I think I will when I get past this problem. steelhead, thank you for the suggestions. I'm learning as I go. I have had this motor since new and I've never had any issues to work on so I am now learning as I go.


IMG_4848.jpg  IMG_4849.jpg  IMG_4850.jpg  IMG_4851.jpg 

I would like to get some ideas about what I have found on the engine. As I said, the thermostats had a lot of crud in the housings. The stats themselves were pretty clean but obviously had some age. I ordered the stats and housings etc from Bills. The manual was a little more than I was expecting but I have found one I can borrow for a few weeks and I'll have that next week sometime. I have attached some pictures. First, the EMM that was replaced a couple of years ago had three hoses going to it. I assume these are cooling hoses but none of them had clamps. I think the tech must have forgotten to put the clamps on. But there is no sign of leaking. Then I took the cover of the Pressure relief valve and it looks brand new. Almost as if there wasn't any water going through it. I was expecting to see the same crud I saw in the thermostat housing. Does this look normal or do I have a water flow problem.


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Kinston NC
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #15 
No signs of leaking on the EMM hoses.  Low pressure system, less 20 psi on the big blocks. I would replace all the clamps with Oetiker stainless steel OEM style clamps or 3/16" wire ties, much better clamping and far less hose damage compared to the screw type.

The PRV chamber looks fairly clean inside.  Test it for smoothness by sliding the piston back and forth.  Check the diaphram for any leaks and fixed stretching sag.  I would replace the PRV with the new improved upgrade HD unit or at least replace seal, piston and diaphragm.  Test the PRV spring for correct spring compression pressure or replace with new.  1300 hours on a PRV is lots of wear and tear.  Any numbers on the old one, may have been replaced already?
 I may add more when I have time

Do you have a motor temperature gauge?

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