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25hp ETEC Intermittent forward and reverse shift problem E-TEC I-2
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7 posts Godogs 7 posts
Godogs
25HP (E25DTLAAA) occasionally will not shift to forward or reverse after electric start.  Cranks fine, pull tiller shift forward (or reverse) and engine makes same weird knocking sound as when trying to increase throttle in neutral.  Yes, I know not to increase throttle while in neutral.  Most of the time killing engine/re-starting fixes problem, but not always.  Occasionally takes multiple kill/re-start before moving to forward or reverse.  Suggestions please??
lee spencer
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Nordmann 2,881 posts
Nordmann
Loose connector screw(s)? Located inside water intake screens.
Nordmann.

Not applying to me.
People who think they know everything
is a great annoyance to those of us who do.  -Isaac Asimov.
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rickmcd53 4,397 posts
rickmcd53
If the throttle is advanced even a tiny bit it will not Rev up in gear because it saw too high of a throttle position sensor reading when started. If you twist the throttle back to zero the problem should clear.
The throttle roller on the engine linkage should have some clearance and roll freely at zero throttle.
Another possibility is a loose gear position switch on the engine throttle linkage. This would make the engine think it is still in neutral and limit rpm.
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Nordmann 2,881 posts
Nordmann
Quote:
occasionally will not shift to forward or reverse after electric start


Hi Rick,
I agree with all your suggestions, however the way I read it, it seem like OP is shifting mechanically into reverse or forward without engaging either.
Nordmann.

Not applying to me.
People who think they know everything
is a great annoyance to those of us who do.  -Isaac Asimov.
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rickmcd53 4,397 posts
rickmcd53
Nordmann, always tough with keyboard diagnostics.
Screen with you if the weird knocing sound is the clutch dog due to linkage problems.

Cranks fine, pull tiller shift forward (or reverse) and engine makes same weird knocking sound as when trying to increase throttle in neutral.

Godogs, does the shifter feel different? Does the prop actually turn when shifted?
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Godogs 7 posts
Godogs
Rick,
Shifter does not feel any different than normal when it doesn't go into gear.  Also, prop does not turn when this happens.  It is exactly the same as trying to advance throttle while still in neutral.

Thanks for responses.  Hope to check your suggestions out in the morning.

Also, looking at the Service Manual I see a Throttle Position Sensor.  I'm certainly no outboard mechanic but the part description fits the problem.  Is this a possibility?
lee spencer
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Nordmann 2,881 posts
Nordmann
Quote:
Shifter does not feel any different than normal when it doesn't go into gear.  Also, prop does not turn when this happens.  It is exactly the same as trying to advance throttle while still in neutral.


Let's forget about the throttle for a little while.

If you shift into forward or reverse at idle, does the gear engage and spin the propeller?

If not, something loose or slipping in the gear linkage.

If yes, it engages, but no power and shaking above ~1500RPM indicates a bad neutral switch.
Nordmann.

Not applying to me.
People who think they know everything
is a great annoyance to those of us who do.  -Isaac Asimov.
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Godogs 7 posts
Godogs
Looked at motor today.  Three things I saw:
1) Pulled water intake screen.  Top shift rod connector screw and connector are both stripped and has been for some time by the looks of it.  I shifted neutral/forward/neutral/reverse several times and didn't see any problems.  There isn't any scoring on the shift rod indicating that is had been slipping up and down.  Bottom screw was tight.  I will replace the screw and connector.  Big question:  can I replace the shift rod connector without dropping the entire lower unit?
2) I didn't see anything loose in the linkage.  I checked all screws for both throttle and gear linkages.  All looked normal to the untrained eye.  I only checked power head connections.  Didn't take tiller cover off and inspect.
3) The Neutral Switch is not positioned directly center of the shift lever detent lobe as described in service manual.  It is positioned slightly to the rear of the lobe maybe 1/8 inch.  I tried to reposition switch using the bracket and screws as described.  I disagree with the service manual.  The bracket can't be adjusted.  The screw holes fit perfectly meaning they aren't oversized or slotted to allow for movement/positioning.

Thank you again for your help.
lee spencer
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Nordmann 2,881 posts
Nordmann
Godogs, I inadvertently wiped the post with the diagram. If you need it let me know, and I'll post it again. 

 
Quote:
Big question:  can I replace the shift rod connector without dropping the entire lower unit?


Yes. Shift the gear handle into FWD and push the lower shift shaft down into reverse. You may need to spin the prop to engage reverse.
Make sure the slots in shift shafts are aligned with the screw-holes before fitting the screws. Otherwise the screws will strip the threads and you have to start all over again.
Nordmann.

Not applying to me.
People who think they know everything
is a great annoyance to those of us who do.  -Isaac Asimov.
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rickmcd53 4,397 posts
rickmcd53
I keep forgetting about the stripped screw,,, and we've fixed two of those with shifting problems in the past month! Any looseness in that clamp will cause shifting problems.
Most of the time the threads strip on the upper bolt (stainless) but do not strip the connector (brass).
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Godogs 7 posts
Godogs
Nordman, thanks but no I don't need the diagram.  I've ordered shift rod connector and screws.  Of course, connector isn't in stock.

Took boat out this morning but haven't had time to adjust neutral switch yet.  Motor shifted fine but had new problem of motor bogging down off of wot.  Prop was still spinning but only barely minimum.  When increasing throttle it made the sound similar to when in neutral and advancing throttle.  Moved shift to neutral, reverse, neutral, then forward again and worked til it repeated the bogging down again.  Are these problems related?
Thank you again...
lee spencer
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rickmcd53 4,397 posts
rickmcd53
Check your messages, I've got connectors in stock.
If the linkage had some play the shift switch could go to neutral at wot throttle and drop rpm to 1200.
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