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steelhead

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Reply with quote  #16 

Go with Huey's hearing, mine is badly damaged from 5.56mm M16 and other full auto small rounds fire plus LZ field artillery and years on loud racing outboards and straight piped loud inboard turbo'd V8s.
I cranked the audio full up on the vid. but I can't hear what Huey is.  I can't lip read a fuel pump.

First confirm test the spec fuel pump pressures under load, then pull the main pump and examine for and rust or other particles plugging screen.  Hook up pump to 12v batt. observing polarity and run it in laying on work bench.  Rusted binding pump will howl on the work bench.  Testing will confirm pump one way or other, saves throwing parts.

Test the lift pump also, weak lift pump wears out main electric motor pump from extra work load.

Huey's right.  Only takes a very small amount of water in gas to rust and corrode damage the main pump, injectors and VST.  Water chemically mixes in ethanol gas but will still corrode metals it contacts.  Ethanol gas will carry water through a water separator, will not set of the WIF water in fuel sensor.
Ethanol is a chemical poison to the human body and outboards especially when mixed with water.

HiWard

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey
It does not mean there is no water damage and to my ears from the short video it does not sound great and sounds like they do with water damage.

Having watched a VST teardown on YouTube, I now understand water could enter the fuel through leaks in the cooling spiral inside the tank, over time damaging the pump. This is after the water in fuel sensor located in the water separating fuel filter and would of course not trigger a fault or alarm. I suppose I should replace the pump which means I also have to replace the tank as the two are sold as a complete assembly.
rickmcd53

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Reply with quote  #18 
The VST has a float valve controlled vent. A VST sitting for a few months with daytime heating and nighttime cooling cycles could condense moisture out of the atmosphere in the tank.
HiWard

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickmcd53
The VST has a float valve controlled vent. A VST sitting for a few months with daytime heating and nighttime cooling cycles could condense moisture out of the atmosphere in the tank.

That also makes sense. My boat is usually mothballed from October to April, I always winterize the engine and change the gearcase oil before the winter.
rickmcd53

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Reply with quote  #20 
Does your winterizing include at least 30 minutes run time on non ethanol treated fuel?
HiWard

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Reply with quote  #21 
Fuel without ethanol is not available in my area, it's supposedly a 5% ethanol mix. I've always used the Evinrude 2+4 Fuel Treatment at the recommended rate and recently started adding carbon guard as well. When I lay the boat up I add a triple dose of fuel treatment.
HiWard

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Reply with quote  #22 
Still struggling with this issue, it now seems worse. Boat not used in 14 days as we were away on holiday and the engine will now stall almost instantly when put into gear (forward or reverse). If I’m fast enough to get the rpms up it will run fine.

Coincidentally, I remember installing a second battery and a voltage separated relay before all this started. Is there any chance this is related to my stalling issues or is it purely coincidental?
HiWard

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Reply with quote  #23 
Spoke to my repair guy today. They changed the entire lower unit (bad exhaust valve) and the exhaust back pressure hose was clogged on the EMM-side which really didn’t matter as the hose was also torn on the exhaust fitting side... However, he says the engine still doesn’t sound good and he will replace the VST on Monday.
HiWard

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Reply with quote  #24 
Finally picked up my boat at the repair shop today and holy **** what a difference! When hearing it now I realize my engine has been struggling for quite some time. I uploaded a video here for comparison with the the one from my first post: video

Engine idles happily and seems strong in gear at low rpms.

The following repairs were made:
1. Replaced lower (mid?) unit. The exhaust valve was "quite stuck" and has been replaced with a third generation lower unit which includes a grease nipple and a longer lube shaft (mechanics' words).
2. Replaced the entire exhaust return pressure assembly.
3. Replaced the VST assembly. The one installed now requires a restrictor on the flush port resulting in a lot stronger stream.
4 Updated Map Soft Rev to 2027468HO and the PDC Ver to 115H0301. One of these includes a "cold start idle" feature which increases the idle revs when the engine is cold.

Hopefully this is useful to anybody else with similar issues.
steelhead

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Reply with quote  #25 

Always use Oly's Brew to protect that expensive E-TEC fueling system tank to injectors.  200:1 TC-W3 outboard lube in the gas every tank.  Outboard lube oil has strong anti rust/corrosion additives.  Side benefits, makes the injectors/fuel pump and motor quieter.  Water in fuel and rust/corrosion killed your old expensive fuel pump.
E. 2+4 is mandatory in ethanoled fuel.  When that disappears from your market, best is Stabil Marine, then the Yamaha product.

Running the E. Carbon Guard or Yamaha Ring Free in these V4 tuned exhaust valve is mandatory to keep the exhaust valve shaft/bushings clean of carbon lock up.  Every tank.  Triple dose last tank of season along with E. Engine Tuner in thru the throttle bodies, let it soak for several hours/overnight and take it out run it hard 4500 rpms+ for couple hours.  High exhaust heat and the cleaners remove the carbon.  Then winterize and no more hose running until next season, extra oil soaks and loosens any remaining carbon buildup

Critical on these V4s that spend more than 75% of their time low rpms per the history report time/rpms.

Watch the warmed up motor temps like a hawk.  Below 140d F and motor is building up excessive carbon.

HiWard

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Reply with quote  #26 
steelhead, thanks for the input.

I always have (and always will) use 2+4 fuel treatment. I bought the engine at 129 hours and suspect previous owner did not. Adding carbon guard is now also a part of my refuelling procedure. I will pay closer attention to engine temps and also make sure I get more frequent WOT runs. Your argument about adding 200:1 TC-W3 makes perfect sense i my opinion.

Out of curiosity; does anyone know what's different with the new VST and pump? I didn't look under the cowling, but my mechanic said it looks completely different. There must also be a reason for the restrictor which now sits in the flush port. It's a plastic hex screw with a much smaller peehole.
rickmcd53

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Reply with quote  #27 
The old fuel pump assembly had a VST tank with an internal water tube (heat exchanger) to cool the fuel and had an external pump. The new style unit has the fuel pump inside the VST and a different design heat exchanger that cools the fuel and the pump. The restrictor puts some back pressure on the VST cooling and slows down water flow in order to give more time for heat to transfer from the fuel to the water.
HiWard

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickmcd53
The old fuel pump assembly had a VST tank with an internal water tube (heat exchanger) to cool the fuel and had an external pump. The new style unit has the fuel pump inside the VST and a different design heat exchanger that cools the fuel and the pump. The restrictor puts some back pressure on the VST cooling and slows down water flow in order to give more time for heat to transfer from the fuel to the water.

Thanks for the input, that's interesting information.
cashcrews

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Posts: 40
Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelhead

Always use Oly's Brew to protect that expensive E-TEC fueling system tank to injectors.  200:1 TC-W3 outboard lube in the gas every tank.



Any TC-W3 oil?  Have a little leftover XD30 from the good old days of pre-mix, but mostly XD-100 on the shelf.



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Cashcrews E90HGLAF / 05507685
Black_Z28

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Posts: 54
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiWard
Finally picked up my boat at the repair shop today and holy **** what a difference! When hearing it now I realize my engine has been struggling for quite some time. I uploaded a video here for comparison with the the one from my first post: video

Engine idles happily and seems strong in gear at low rpms.

The following repairs were made:
1. Replaced lower (mid?) unit. The exhaust valve was "quite stuck" and has been replaced with a third generation lower unit which includes a grease nipple and a longer lube shaft (mechanics' words).
2. Replaced the entire exhaust return pressure assembly.
3. Replaced the VST assembly. The one installed now requires a restrictor on the flush port resulting in a lot stronger stream.
4 Updated Map Soft Rev to 2027468HO and the PDC Ver to 115H0301. One of these includes a "cold start idle" feature which increases the idle revs when the engine is cold.

Hopefully this is useful to anybody else with similar issues.


Cripes, your motor idles identical to mine. Same little kick from time to time. I'm going to email my dealer your YouTube video. I've asked them multiple times if this could be the VST, and each time they say they don't think so. They checked the vent tube, no fuel. But I'm sure there could be other symptoms then fuel in the vent tube.
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