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HamptonSnow

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Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #1 
New to the forum, first post.  Need help with what to do next. My engine won't start at all.

Engine is a 2007 90HP E-TEC (E90 DSL SU) on a pontoon boat. Only about bout 95 hours on the engine. I just recently acquired the boat and engine.

The engine ran last year, but did not get above 3000 RPM or so. Sat for years prior to that. This year, the engine won't start at all. 

I bought the software and it revealed no issues trying to start the engine. The only error codes were 6 instances of a code 17 (low voltage on the 55 volt system) in the last 90 minutes of engine time.  The highest rpm trying to start the engine was around 560 rpm with 39 volts on the 55 volt system at that rpm. According to the service manual, that's about the right voltage for 500-600 rpm. Since it won't start, I can't replicate the error 17.

Here's what's been tested and passed:
- old gas drained, all new gas with 1/2 can of Seafoam.
- neutral check switch
- safety lanyard switch
- cleaned vst filter
- 198 volts on ignition system
- spark plugs (indexed properly) and wires replaced - ignition tests passed.
- all three injectors click on the diagnostic's test, cleaned filters inside #1 and #3 injectors (still need to do #2)
- all three injectors 2.5-2.9 ohms
- pressure in fuel lines at the injectors - not sure how much (see below)
- ground continuity tested engine to battery, ignition coils, EMM harness ground
- proper voltage to the fuel pump (12V non-running, 55V while cranking)
- fuel pump continuity

Here's what I can't understand - no firing of any cylinders at all.  No signs of the engine kicking, no exhaust (just air).  Then I shoot some starting fluid in the air intake and it runs for a few seconds, then nothing.  This is telling me that there's no fuel getting to the cylinders and the electrical is probably OK, right?

So I assume either the injectors aren't working, or they aren't getting enough fuel pressure (fuel pump issue).  I ordered a fuel pressure tester, but in the meantime, I pulled the fuel line off the top injector (engine not running) and fuel sprayed everywhere - so I assumed there's enough fuel pressure until I get the tester and get an actual psi reading - and that the high pressure lines are holding the pressure OK with no leaks.  The diagnostic software's fuel pump test increased the pressure on the top relief shrader valve, but not what I would call "high pressure".  There may have been some air that came out of the shrader valve.

I'm pretty sure the fuel lines have degraded since there appeared to be black rubber in the filters. I know I need all new fuel lines.  But before I do that, I'd like to get at least some sign of life.

So my question is this - if I'm getting 30psi to the fuel lines at the injectors, and the injectors are clicking with the 12volt static test, what should I be testing next???

My theory is that the injector nozzles aren't opening - but for all three to go at once doesn't sound realistic.

I'm thinking of trying to take the nozzle caps off the injectors so I can see the filters inside the injectors, and see if I can get the nozzles to open, but that sounds risky. (I may have to send them to be cleaned / serviced by the resource mentioned several times on this site.)  I would rather start with something simpler next. I keep feeling like I'm missing something obvious.

If there's air in the fuel lines, what should I be looking for / testing?

Thank you in advance for your help.





__________________
New to Evinrude, too many 2-stroke boats
2007 90HP E-TEC (E90 DSL SU) on a 24' pontoon boat
Seadoo Speedster
Yamaha Superjet
Polaris Virage TX
Sailboat with 1970's 6hp Johnson
bunkergroup

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Posts: 315
Reply with quote  #2 
Have you checked/cleaned the vst cone mesh filter and the hp pump filter ?.
Nordmann

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Posts: 1,518
Reply with quote  #3 
 
 The diagnostic software's fuel pump test increased the pressure on the top relief shrader valve, but not what I would call "high pressure".  There may have been some air that came out of the shrader valve.


Post an engine report. Sounds like contamination of most fuel related parts, and possibly HPP not working.

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Nordmann.

Sign seen in a dentist's waiting room:
There is nothing the dentist can do, that the patient won't do!
PhilH12

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Posts: 3,491
Reply with quote  #4 
I would try Rick's injector test - pull the plugs and insert a thin strip of stiff paper.  Crank the engine.  Check the paper for fuel spray.

Also, as bunkergroup suggested one of the easiest things to do on the whole engine - (assuming you have the original VST) - Undo the 1 screw holding the pump to the VST and maybe that top fuel hose.  Gently twist and lift the pump off the VST base.  Look up under the pump at the fine screen in there.  Flush it off as required.  Oil the O-rings and twist/push the pump back down into place.  Replace hose and screw.

Phil

__________________
Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
HamptonSnow

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Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #5 
Yes, I cleaned the cone shaped VST filter. It was pretty clogged, but cleaning it did not help at all.

I won't be near the boat and the laptop until this weekend, so I can post screen shot of reports next week.

I was reading about the filter at the bottom of the fuel pump last night and I will try that and the paper strip test this weekend. Thank you.

__________________
New to Evinrude, too many 2-stroke boats
2007 90HP E-TEC (E90 DSL SU) on a 24' pontoon boat
Seadoo Speedster
Yamaha Superjet
Polaris Virage TX
Sailboat with 1970's 6hp Johnson
PhilH12

Registered:
Posts: 3,491
Reply with quote  #6 
The 'somewhat' bad news is all that "stuff" in the VST filter came back from your injectors and return rail.

If you haven't seen it, here's Joe's video of DIY injector cleaning.  https://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1304226105&postcount=9&forum=136483

Just pulling the injectors out of their housings may tell you something about water in fuel, etc. but I'd do that after the paper strip test, if needed.

Hope it helps!

Phil

__________________
Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
Nordmann

Registered:
Posts: 1,518
Reply with quote  #7 
If HPP is running and fuel pressure is not around 30 psi, it may be the pressure valve in the VST. Contaminate may keep valve open.
__________________
Nordmann.

Sign seen in a dentist's waiting room:
There is nothing the dentist can do, that the patient won't do!
HamptonSnow

Registered:
Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #8 
Fuel pressure gauge arrives Friday, headed back to lake after it arrives to spend the weekend on this.

Here's the game plan:
- check fuel pressure for 30psi
- clean filter on bottom of HPP
- check / clean the pressure valve in the VST
- paper strip test for fuel in cylinder - if 30psi in rail, but no gas in the cylinder, then:

- Remove injectors and inspect the nozzle and nozzle screen per Joe's video.  I also ordered an ultrasonic carb cleaner to try to clean the inside of the injectors. Planning to use Seafoam for the cleaning fluid - other suggestions welcome.

Any other ideas?  Ideally, I'd like to get this running this weekend.

Also - the fuel lines in the engine take some pretty hard turns - normally, I would replace fuel lines with hose from a roll, but these bends would probably kink regular hose.  Is there a fuel hose replacement kit for this engine, or has anyone found a hose that is good with E10 and doesn't kink?  The forum posts I've found so far talk about the line from the gas tank to the motor mostly, which we replaced already.


__________________
New to Evinrude, too many 2-stroke boats
2007 90HP E-TEC (E90 DSL SU) on a 24' pontoon boat
Seadoo Speedster
Yamaha Superjet
Polaris Virage TX
Sailboat with 1970's 6hp Johnson
PhilH12

Registered:
Posts: 3,491
Reply with quote  #9 
No hose "kit" that I'm aware of.  I do see these for the injector rails - a bit pricey at $120 each and the o-rings at $10 each.

5008391 - Fuel Rail Assembly  Supply

5008390 - Fuel Rail Assembly  Return

0350779 - O-Ring, Fuel Rail, Sold Individually  3 per assembly

 348839 — HOSE CLAMP, 17MM (3 required per assembly)

This page "may" help, but I believe this is still showing the older P/N's   http://shop2.evinrude.com/Index.aspx?s1=bmjfi41pnf1gcsnlbgc0mibij2&catalog_id=0&siteid=1 

Then again, you can always call Barnacle Bill's and be assured of getting the "right stuff"!

EDIT:  Maybe just me, but I wouldn't chase the VST pressure valve unless you don't get your +/- 30 psi when running.  It's a time consuming job to get at the mounting screws, etc. if you want to remove the VST.  Not "hard" but a bit "tedious".

Phil

__________________
Always check the Easy Stuff First!
20' Weeres fishing pontoon
90 HP E-Tec E90DPLSUM  05184332
Lake Tawakoni, TX - Catfish Capital of Texas
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