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tom_20000

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Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #1 
Hi all, been reading for a while and just took the plunge and upgraded my 1995 150 Intruder to a brand new 2.7l G2 150 HO :-) 

I'm having some propping issues though and hoping for a bit of advice, firstly I live 3 hours a way from the nearest water so boat time is precious and prop testing is difficult.... that said here's where i'm at. 

- Old engine, same boat ran a Solas 4 blade - 17pitch top speed 39knots 5000rpm
- New G2 was supplied with a RX4 20" (due to torque) - Top speed 39knots but WOT 4800rpm and hole shot was poor
- Lifted the engine 1 hole and now the cav plate is about 1 inch above the water, runs well except I lose bite in turns unless i trim all the way back in first to around 10%, and if there's a swell I need to trim in or i get cavitation so assume I need to go back down a hole -  gained about 90rpm on the WOT.
- Fought to get the prop swapped due to the low RPM and they ordered me a another RX4 this time 18" WOT is now 5200rpm but top speed dropped 35knts  

I dont know what to do, feels like I need to drop again as i'm not yet in the optimum RPM range for my model and the boat wasnt really loaded at all. But I was expecting this newer engine to at least match the speed and torque of my 25 year old engine and so far it's not. That said economy is excellent!

If I drop to a 16" will I gain the top end due to the extra RPM's? I've got the Solas 17" still but would need to purchase a new hub kit before trying it. 

Thanks in advance! 

Tom
mead

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Posts: 776
Reply with quote  #2 
Lots of question to be sure we understand.
Tell us more how you trim the engine to achieve wot rpm and top speed.
Please clarify what prop you were using after raising the engine. Was it the the 20 Rx4? It's strange to hear the Rx4 loses bite and ventilated. The AV plate One inch above the bottom is very typical and usually correct.
What trim setting were you at when the ventilation started?
What is the optimum wot range you are trying to achieve?
What gauges are you using? Has the trim gauge been calibrated?
PropNut

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Posts: 467
Reply with quote  #3 
With the gear ratio of the G2 i am surprised with the lack of RPM out of the two setups you have tried.  I would be confirming the output of the engine before going any farther, its not very common to get one only running on 5 out the box but its possible.

I would also consider holding off for availability of the new Rx3 props.  I have had a chance to try the new Rx3s in Miami and they hold the water a lot better then the Rebels did and could give you a little better performance then the Rx4.
steelhead

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Posts: 4,097
Reply with quote  #4 
Did the install dealer do the PDI correctly? Especially boat fuel systems tests, clear hose?>air bubbles in fuel, vacuum reading in fuel line just before motor.

How old is the boat fuel system?
What size fuel tank pickup tube and fuel line in use?
Antisiphon valve been checked?
Did the dealer install a fuel line bulb?  Bad JuJu, big NoNo

Can also test with a small portable tank connected directly to the motor, no bulb.

Not many RIBs been tested with G2s yet.
See if you can find something comparable.

https://www.evinrude.com/en-US/performance-reports.html
tom_20000

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Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #5 

Thanks for the replies some answers below

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mead
Lots of question to be sure we understand.
Tell us more how you trim the engine to achieve wot rpm and top speed.
Please clarify what prop you were using after raising the engine. Was it the the 20 Rx4? It's strange to hear the Rx4 loses bite and ventilated. The AV plate One inch above the bottom is very typical and usually correct.
What trim setting were you at when the ventilation started?
What is the optimum wot range you are trying to achieve?
What gauges are you using? Has the trim gauge been calibrated?

 

Trim usually trim out until speed stops climbing and the bow is lifted so the boats on the planning pad and reduced wake from the hull, in flat conditions between 60 – 79%

After raising initially it was still on the 20 RX4 and then onto the 18 RX4

Ventilation at 69% in a gentle swell

Optimum WOT on the engine spec sheet from the website said 5400 – 6000 for this model

I’ve got the 4.3 colour screen – Engineer said he was calibrating it when I took it for the PDI

 

 

 

Did the install dealer do the PDI correctly? Especially boat fuel systems tests, clear hose?>air bubbles in fuel, vacuum reading in fuel line just before motor.

How old is the boat fuel system?
What size fuel tank pickup tube and fuel line in use?
Antisiphon valve been checked?
Did the dealer install a fuel line bulb?  Bad JuJu, big NoNo

Can also test with a small portable tank connected directly to the motor, no bulb.

Not many RIBs been tested with G2s yet.
See if you can find something comparable.

https://www.evinrude.com/en-US/performance-reports.html

 

[/QUOTE]

 

I did the install myself and then took it back to the retailer for the PDI – I didn’t seem him do any checks for air bubbles, just let the system prime and started it up on muffs

Fuel system all new fitted at same time as engine – Two tanks, 1 anti-siphon at the tank end on each tank 10mm copper pipe pickup, 10mm hose to the back of the boat to a fuel water separator and then direct to engine. Engineer suggested I fitted a bulb but I read the fitting guide which said not to so I didn’t.

Not specifically checked the anti-siphon but it’s the same regardless of the tank I’m running.

 

Also noticed it sounding a bit more rattly than before on idle, only got c.15hrs on it.

 

Thanks again

 

steelhead

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Reply with quote  #6 
Boat fuel system tests, vacuum max and air leak bubbles, must be done.  Far too many problems with boat fuel system replacements, leaking fittings, kinked hose, Ad nauseam.
Need to be done on the water on plane motor under load

Also do the motor fuel system pressure tests per Service Manual, lift pump and high pressure rail pump.  On the water.

Please post a picture and the weight of your RIB.

Definitely do not want to prop that 150 G2 below 5400 rpms max load.  The old carb'd Intruders ran rich all the time, only fried a cylinder when a carb jet plugged or some fool tuned lean.
These G2s are computer tuned to the ragged edge on stoichiometric air-fuel ratio 14.7:1 for maximum fuel economy and emissions, overload the motor and drag the WOT rpms down below recommended, cylinder meltdown.
Also not hitting peak torque and HP until 5400>5800 range

Light in the bow RIBs generally do not need a bow lifter prop such as the RX4, wasted HP pushing the bow up in the high speed air.  What's the model name on the Solas, HR4?  Try your old Solas if you can get it rehubbed or a Rebel 18P>stern lifter-gets up on the pad quicker
tom_20000

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Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelhead
Boat fuel system tests, vacuum max and air leak bubbles, must be done.  Far too many problems with boat fuel system replacements, leaking fittings, kinked hose, Ad nauseam.
Need to be done on the water on plane motor under load

Also do the motor fuel system pressure tests per Service Manual, lift pump and high pressure rail pump.  On the water.

Please post a picture and the weight of your RIB.

Definitely do not want to prop that 150 G2 below 5400 rpms max load.  The old carb'd Intruders ran rich all the time, only fried a cylinder when a carb jet plugged or some fool tuned lean.
These G2s are computer tuned to the ragged edge on stoichiometric air-fuel ratio 14.7:1 for maximum fuel economy and emissions, overload the motor and drag the WOT rpms down below recommended, cylinder meltdown.
Also not hitting peak torque and HP until 5400>5800 range

Light in the bow RIBs generally do not need a bow lifter prop such as the RX4, wasted HP pushing the bow up in the high speed air.  What's the model name on the Solas, HR4?  Try your old Solas if you can get it rehubbed or a Rebel 18P>stern lifter-gets up on the pad quicker


I don't have many photos with the new engine fitted but the below collection should give you an idea of the size of the rig. The boat is reasonably heavy, c.1300kg unladen with no fuel on-board.

Gave the fuel fittings a check over tonight no obvious kinks or issues but hard to tell without a proper test. 

The Solas is a Rubex HR4 14.1/4" x 17 

Tbf I do get loads of bow lift, I normally run 4 people on board 260 litres of fuel and a good 200kg of kit. The tests mentioned before were with 2 100litres of fuel and no kit.

The RX4 prop's were part of the engine purchase deal but the dealer suggested I needed the 20 pitch based on the boat and seemed reluctant to swap to the 18 so unsure if they're going to support me in another change. 

Guess I need to give them a call tomorrow. Does anyone know if diagnostic work for these sort of issues are covered under the warranty, or would I be expected to pay if I need to take it back (10hr round tow :-( )

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steelhead

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Posts: 4,097
Reply with quote  #8 

We know the rpms on your old Intruder was analogue and not highly accurate.
Was the WOT speed on it GPS?

What RPM gauge are you using with the G2?

The HR4 is a stern lifter like the E. Rebel which is a large bladed high cupped stern lifter 3 blade with excellent hole-shot and hookup for high speed turns, highly efficient.  When propped correctly, a Rebel will give you max fuel economy.  A 3 blade prop usually gives higher WOT speeds, less water friction drag.
Don't expect much more on that large RIB from only 150hp

Huey

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Posts: 13,860
Reply with quote  #9 
No outboard company would cover under warranty set-up and propping issues. So the bottom pictures with the G2 is not your boat? If so we need to know if you have the DPS version or not. Simple facts are set-up, fuelled and propped correctly the new G2 will outperomf the old carby girl.
tom_20000

Registered:
Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelhead

We know the rpms on your old Intruder was analogue and not highly accurate.
Was the WOT speed on it GPS?

What RPM gauge are you using with the G2?

The HR4 is a stern lifter like the E. Rebel which is a large bladed high cupped stern lifter 3 blade with excellent hole-shot and hookup for high speed turns, highly efficient.  When propped correctly, a Rebel will give you max fuel economy.  A 3 blade prop usually gives higher WOT speeds, less water friction drag.
Don't expect much more on that large RIB from only 150hp



Yeah fair point, the gauge was analogue, speed was taken with GPS as SOG for all runs/engines.

On the G2 i'm just using the Icon 4.3 colour screen

Spoke to the dealer today, he's going to investigate with Evinrude as felt anything over 5k rpm was fine but has agreed to check. 

I'll try get a hub kit for my HR4, and see what my dealer comes back with. 150 is the max size for that rib unfortunately. 

Thanks for the help so far 
tom_20000

Registered:
Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey
No outboard company would cover under warranty set-up and propping issues. So the bottom pictures with the G2 is not your boat? If so we need to know if you have the DPS version or not. Simple facts are set-up, fuelled and propped correctly the new G2 will outperomf the old carby girl.


Sorry I was thinking more if it was a fueling issue or such. I paid for the PDI, so assume it should have been checked at that point. Hopefully it's just a propping problem. 

The photos are all my boat, some with the old intruder and now with the G2. Just dont have very good photos of it with the G2 fitted. 

Is it the DPS version - C150FLHAAE


Thanks 
Huey

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Registered:
Posts: 13,860
Reply with quote  #12 
If a boat fueling issue again no company will cover that work and why it is good for a dealer to do pressure and vacuum checks. You will have to ask the person that rigged the engine. A good old Viper might work best on your RIB and best to see around 5500-5600RPM at WOT.
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